+ T +

What on earth are you talking about? Do you think I'm at all interested in that nonsense? If you say or do something in any thread that I think is wrong or out of line then I'll say so and if you think you can impose consequences on me or others for that then you do so and more's the pity for this forum if that's the case. I keep my comments to you as constructive and civil as I possibly can and the purpose of a forum is discussion, it's not a place where people only get to say things you like. If you have a problem with me replying in threads you've closed then I suggest you stop closing and reopening your threads so erratically because honestly I don't bother to check what's locked or not before I reply, particularly when you've addressed me directly. If you want to get your CoinOPS thread back on topic then I won't interfere but as long as you talk about sources then my opinion stands and I'll state it again for the sake of clarity; if you won't release your sources then keep quiet about other people's because you haven't got a leg to stand on. You asked me about this remember, I didn't raise it with you. Get as 'serious' as you like. Nothing you can say or do will discourage me from speaking out if I feel compelled to do so.

It's a shame you won't include it in the GUI as that's what I've been talking about all along. But I won't complain as a credits file is at least better than nothing. I only didn't add iq_132 because he said he wasn't interested in being credited so I left his inclusion at your discretion. As for grabbing the source; I look forward to seeing the up-to-date source available alongside your next release build. If you're not going to do this then I suggest you don't mention sources again.

Ok, this may not be complete; I know there are a lot of people who have helped behind the scenes that I'm not aware of and it's up to you if you wish to credit them or not. Similarly I've not included yourself or iq_132 in this list as that's entirely your choice as well. Some of this I was planning to add to the list that Mega Man (?) started before his thread was locked. Shame on whatever staff member was responsible for that as I feel it was entirely constructive and many more inflammatory threads have been allowed to go unlocked. In any case, these are the emulators that CoinOPS is using along with the names of the developers that should be credited as best as I can establish them. Forgive me if I've left anybody out. This is the information I'm suggesting should be visible within the CoinOPS UI. I also think it would be appropriate to include any credits.txt files that come with the individual emulators in the CoinOPS package (I know Surreal has one, not sure about others). Not a huge list I'm sure you'll agree and not at all intrusive to have an option to display it. As you say it's a 1 second addition that in my opinion at least would make a big difference.

I'm not trying to lay down rules and I'm not appointing myself the "Emulator Police". These are my views and my views only. I feel strongly that it's wrong to allow yourself to take the credit for other people's work. I'm not supporting anyone else here. If I felt as strongly about madmab not releasing his sources I'd be over on the emuxtras forum telling him so, but to me that's a much more grey area on which I'm not really qualified to comment due to my own choices in the past. It's a shame because with just a few changes CoinOPS has potential to be something really positive. My only problems with it are the lack of clarity as to which emulators are being used, lack of credits for the developers who coded them, and the fact that you're still using nes6502's emulators against his wishes. If these things were corrected then I'd have nothing to say.

And it's more than appreciated by all of us that you've helped over the years.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm not trying to make rules. But you asked me for my personal view on sources and I gave it to you. I know the devs you mean and I know they believe strongly in open source. But if any developer feels their code is being used in a way they don't approve of then it's up to them to say and not for you or anyone else to be their spokesman. I'd be the first one to support the wishes of a developer in terms of what is and is not done with their code. Since I think we're still talking about madmab's emulators then I understand that XPort would probably want the sources released with the builds. But then, as I said before, XPort kept his sources to himself until he'd finished his work on the emulators, then he released all the sources at once. I think, given those circumstances, he would at least have to allow madmab the opportunity to do the same thing in the same way. I don't know anything about the Surreal sources and if they're available or not. I would hope that they are and that Gogo is properly credited for his work on that project, but I haven't even tried the new Surreal yet so I don't know. And again I'll mention that (even though you're not necessarily wrong here) I think you're on shaky ground putting this argument forward when your own project is not open source. You can make excuses about people who ask for them get them and other nonsense but at the end of the day, open source means that when you release a build, you release the sourcecode that you compiled it from. This isn't as difficult as you make out and I think your argument would be much stronger if you practised as you preached. It's true that very few developers have a policy on being credited where there code is used, but for me it's a matter of respect and not creating misunderstanding that leads to you getting credit for work that isn't yours. It's just common decency. And as I already mentioned I felt that when you used nes6502's code against his wishes you crossed a line and CoinOPS has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since and has left me questioning both your methods and your motives. I'm sure I'm not alone there and I'm also fairly sure that this is one of the reasons why madmab's (and possibly Surreal's?) sources have been kept private. Basically I think the wishes of all developers need to be taken into consideration. The original developers have the right to say sources should be open, but the current coders who have taken up the mantle should also have the right to prevent the work they are doing from being used by someone that (by all appearances) wants to take all the credit for it. I agree that all of this is the sort of thing that stops developers developing and none of us wants that. It's a shame there doesn't appear to be any compromise in sight.

The sources issue is a tricky one so I'll try and answer your question as honestly as I can. I have to be careful here though as I don't want to be accused of hypocrisy. I never released alterations I made to the FBA-XXX sourcecode until I stopped working on it despite requests from a number of people. I can see both sides of the sourcecode issue here. Presuming you're talking about madmab's build of XPort's emulators, you could definitely argue that they should be open source but even XPort himself didn't release the sources to his emulators while he was actively working on them. Also I think CoinOPS may be partly to blame here as well. I don't know for sure but I suspect one of the reasons madmab hasn't released his sources is because he doesn't want the work he's done ending up in CoinOPS. I remember nes6502 saying he didn't want the Final Burn core to be a part of CoinOPS, but you added it anyway and that's when I started to have reservations about using CoinOPS myself. So while, on the one hand, I would like to see open sources all round, on the other I do understand why he's possibly holding them back. The other thing is, you're not really in a position to demand open sources when you don't release an updated sourcecode for each new CoinOPS release. I know you released an old source a long time ago but that isn't the point. Truly open source means a full compilable sourcecode with every new build and you don't make this available so you're not exactly leading from the front here. I think the idea of madmab's name on the main menu of those emulators is more about letting people know which version they're using (i.e. "Madmab Edition v1.0" as opposed to XPort's original). It helps to avoid confusion and at least he hasn't changed or tried to hide the name of the original emulator (Neogenesis is still called Neogenesis). And the crucial point is that XPort's name is always there too as part of the skins and intro videos so I have no problem with that at all. I'd be fine with your name coded into the CoinOPS as long as the original developers were all credited within the UI and as long as the names of the all the emulators you're using are shown. You need to address the fact that many people simply assume CoinOPS is one big emulator coded by you that just runs games for multiple systems. I know you've never said this, but you do nothing to set that record straight either and I think it's your duty to your fellow developers (on whose shoulders you're standing) to see that they get the credit and not you. I hope that's answered your question.

I only support credit where it's due. If any of the xtras are in CoinOPS then they should be credited, if you haven't used any of their stuff then they shouldn't be. Simple as that.

That was just an honest mistake by Mega Man (?). I never claimed I made FBA and I wasn't involved at all in the post of CoinOPS credits but (apart from me being in there) I do agree with it.

I agree that I don't deserve to be on there. I didn't make anything. I just took an existing emu created by real developers and tweaked it a little. The difference between that and CoinOPS is that I never pretended it was my work and every single time somebody thanked me or praised the project I told them the names of the people they should really be thanking. And I always made sure the list of everybody who had done the real work on FBA-XXX was on the first page of every release thread. That being said, this list is long overdue and at the very least should be stickied at the top of the forum so people can see who really made CoinOPS what it is. Thanks Mega Man (?).

You don't need separate screenshots for clones, if you don't have a specific .png for a clone set it will display the parent .png instead. I just use the MAME32 snap set for my screenshots.

I just took a look in MAMEoX128's TDATA folder and it seems the MAMEoX.ini file only allows for one screenshot path. Out of interest, why do you need 2 screenshot folders? I have one .png screenshot for each supported parent set and that doesn't even come close to the 4096 file limit.

Let's go one further and assume everyone who said they don't use CoinOPS for consoles is a 'troll' too. So the actual number of genuine CoinOPS users here is around 23. MAMEoX128 has over 15000 'downloads' on that site. MAME-X has over 26000! What's your point? Seems CoinOPS has the lowest numbers in terms of MAME versions. But, as already pointed out, the numbers on that site are meaningless since they reflect views and not downloads. Oh and BTW, you've posted a link to a site offering downloads of illegally compiled material. Please remove it.

Your summary of the poll results was also incorrect on two counts. According to your results 15 people do not use CoinOPS for consoles and 17 do. That's only 2 more and hardly constitutes "nearly everyone". Also 10 people said they most wanted more arcade games and not a single person said they most wanted more console games. In fact, 8 people voted to remove console support altogether so the above statement is clearly misinformation. 10 people voted for credits and 22 against. When dealing with such a small number of users, that number is more significant than could be called a "very small percentage". Again, just clearing up the misinformation. But of course the poll was always pointless. You would have taken whatever direction you're going to take regardless of the results. Your polls are always a joke and you always end up locking them because you see a lot of people voting for things you don't like.

CoinOPS threads would be "tumbleweeds" too if it wasn't for all the drama you cause. Your poll got only 38 votes and you said yourself that most of these are from people you ignore. If waal, Sparda, PhilExile, Bigby and myself stopped posting tomorrow then this forum would be as quiet as the others you call dead. The numbers speak for themselves, anything else is just misinformation.

I'm sure the results will make those 15 people very happy.

Can't give links here. The build I'm running is MAMEoX128 Plus by HK$ and the skin comes from an older build called MAMEdox by BritneysPAIRS. If you google around I'm sure you'll find them both. EDIT: Here's the skin to save you the trouble of finding that build http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MK9G2MC9. Just download MAMEoX128 and replace the Skins folder with this one. Remember to say thanks to BP for this nice looking skin.

Yes... all 20 of them.

No, I said the CoinOPS UI is hacked up version of Erik Abair's original MAMEoX UI. I didn't say anything about skins, I was talking about code. The screenshot I posted is just one I got from Google image search to show how MAMEoX128 can look better than CoinOPS. I'm not crediting anyone with anything I'm just making the point that MAMEoX128 does not have to look as bland as the screenshot you posted. I'm fully aware it's your skin and I'm not being sarcastic when I say it looks great. CoinOPS doesn't look even half as good IMO. And would you mind telling me what is the purpose of a poll if you just ignore everyone that doesn't vote for what you want? How many people does that leave exactly? Where are the 100s of users you claim to have? Why don't they vote??

No it's HK$'s version but with your skin. Nice work on that BTW, it looks great.

Well one thing is for certain; if it weren't for all the drama around here then this forum would be as dead as all the others. The vast majority of the posts here are by BP himself or those of us who take issue with his attitude and methods. I think you're about the only one of his purported army of users that actually posts here on a regular basis.

The original author from whose emulator the port was derived should always be credited in the documentation. But when you port a program to another platform I wouldn't say you have an obligation to show their name on screen. Porting an emulator takes a lot of work, involves rewriting large amounts of the code to run on the platform, and coding the entire UI from scratch. If you have the skills and put in the effort to do this then you deserve full credit for your port. All BP is doing is taking other developers' ports, making a few minor changes, and then packaging them all up under his own branding. He has not coded any of it himself (even the CoinOPS UI is the original MAMEoX UI with a few tweaks). So in this case, the developers who coded the ports he is using should be credited exactly as madmab credits XPort in his editions. Though I'm loathe to make the comparison since madmab is a skilled coder and has actually updated and improved the core code in many of the ports he has worked on. Something BP is not capable of, despite what he would like us all to believe.

Here's how my MAMEoX128 looks: I'm quite happy with that. Plus the options and settings are much more clear. I'm all for more options but last time I checked CoinOPS they were so poorly laid out that I still don't know what half of them are for. Also, it's just a small thing, but I really like that MAMEoX shows the full game names. If you have multiple versions of the same game in CoinOPS it's impossible to tell which is which. Even if I was a CoinOPS user I would still keep MAMEox128 around. Anyway good luck with your poll. Let's hope the 1000's of users you keep talking about come and vote and not just the 20 or so people that usually do.

In the startup animation of all madmab edition emulators, XPort is very clearly credited in large letters at the top of the screen. So I don't see your point.

I don't have any views on CoinOPS. My only view is that it's plain wrong to take all the credit for something that is 95% composed of other people's work. I don't need a poll to tell me how contemptible and parasitic that is. I accept that the majority of your users (around 20 or so from what I can gather by the posts here) are either too misinformed to realise that you haven't coded any of this yourself or are simply too selfish to care, in which case you're welcome to them.