Warehousing sites

[Valodim]

@Valodim,

 

I know you are reading my posts, None of them were meant to be insulting. Just stressing my opinions, but I am just one person at the moment, who cares what I think huh?

 

Well the discussion has worked out surprisingly well, I'd say. Great to see

 

And yeah those are all personal opinions. It is understandable that creators are protective about their stuff, the problem is just that some of them got somewhat carried away with it (sup KFM), which was undeniably very hurtful to the community as a whole. I realize we were being rather radical with the change, but in small steps this process of decay couldn't be stopped (as TDS proved years ago).

 

About the final edit: I think that thread turned out rather well.

The replies in it immediately show that it's just a patchwork of other people's creations, which will prevent enough people from downloading it so that in three weeks, the thread will be dead and forgotten, and the pack will likely stick to less than three hdds worldwide. Here's the kicker: All this without completely discouraging this potential creator from ever making any actual mugen content and keeping a certain level of civilness. I agree the latter could be better, but it's only been a few months, people are still getting used to it. On the long run, we lose one space in the thread view of the releases forum, and gain +1 potential creator while avoiding the flame war this would have resulted in some months ago.

[-SyN-]

It is understandable that creators are protective about their stuff, the problem is just that some of them got somewhat carried away with it (sup KFM)

 

Hahahahahaha!

 

*Ahem

 

TDS, you brought back old memories. Seriously though Val, I do understand what MFG is trying to do now that I CAUTIOUSLY re read the two links you posted, but seriously though, with the link I posted, isn't that a bit too much? and going too far?

Edited January 17, 2008 by -SyN-

[Valodim]

uh, replied to the link you posted in my above edit, read there

[-SyN-]

I see, instead of taking action, you let the thread kill itself without lifting a finger.

 

Makes sense.

 

Still on another note, should be some sort of restrictions with this new policy? I mean I am not saying MFG should be as strict as some other places but there is, in my opinion, too much freedom with situations like the one we recently observed, also I know the situation between GwaPao and you when you were asked to remove a file sharing link with his works inside found at your forum.

 

Dunno if it was removed or not, but anyway its almost to the point where almost anyone can get away with damn near anything as if it was nothing, in terms of mugen related situations.

[Valodim]

but there is, in my opinion, too much freedom with situations like the one we recently observed

 

Possibly, but we wanted to throw in all our weight to open people's minds a bit. And we succeeded, even RS eased its rules a bit

 

Maybe we'll make the rules stricter again some time, but at this point it would likely still result in huge discussions, and that has been shown to be quite unproductive.

 

also I know the situation between GwaPao and you when you were asked to remove a file sharing link with his works inside found at your forum.

 

let me quote the conversation between him and I:

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 7.1.2008 08:12:42:

hey can you delete the esnip link pls kthnxbye http://mugenguild.com/forumx/index.php?topic=63384.180

 

Valodim, 08:13:28:

...why?

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 08:14:41:

cause my stuff doesnt belong in esnip ^^

 

Valodim, 08:14:49:

...right...

 

Valodim, 08:14:59:

so if someone puts your stuff on a myspace page, I delete all myspace links?

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 08:15:17:

no i mean just on your site

 

Valodim, 08:16:06:

dude I won't forbid people to post the link to a legitimate million-users-page just because you don't like it

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 08:16:42:

im just asking a favor if you dont mind

 

Valodim, 08:17:08:

yah, and I'm giving reasons why I'm not going to do it

 

Valodim, 08:17:32:

rant to the esnips guys about the violation of your personal property if you care that much. or don't, it's not like you're actually losing anything...

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 08:18:12:

is it that really hard o delete that link O_o

 

Valodim, 08:18:30:

nope, would be three clicks

 

Valodim, 08:18:39:

but I don't see any reason to remove it

 

gwapao@hotmail.com, 08:19:08:

lawl k fine

 

however, here is a rather interesting log from #mugen:

 

[07 Jan 08 19:38] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * Hey val!

[07 Jan 08 19:39] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * Did gwapao complained about esnips?

[07 Jan 08 19:40] * Valodim * yah

[07 Jan 08 19:40] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * Oh great.. I did another mistake..

[07 Jan 08 19:40] * Valodim * huh?

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * I was the one who wrote the post

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * Valodim * so?

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * He send me a pm to delete the esnips links

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * anyway, I deleted my posts

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * Valodim * what

[07 Jan 08 19:41] * Valodim * aw man

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Titiln * restore them

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Valodim * yeah

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Valodim * let me do that

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Titiln * HEY SOMEONE UPLOADED MY CHARACTERS TO RAPIDSHARE

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Titiln * DELETE ALL RAPIDSHARE LINKS FROM NOW ON

[07 Jan 08 19:42] * Titiln * *flys off*

[07 Jan 08 19:43] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] *

[07 Jan 08 19:43] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * I'm creating a patch for his screenpack and I would like to take his permission to release it.

[07 Jan 08 19:43] * [-X-M-o-M-X-] * that's why I deleted the posts

[07 Jan 08 19:43] * Valodim * oh

[07 Jan 08 19:43] * Valodim * k

 

Respect isn't something you enforce, it's something you earn.

 

Asking permission should be good habit and a friendly noting of respect among creators, not a mandatory and therefore meaningless procedure. Yes, in reallife when there's money involved etc, there needs to be a Legislature, a Judiciary and finally an Executive. But not here, it only complicates things to ridiculous levels.

 

Dunno if it was removed or not, but anyway its almost to the point where almost anyone can get away with damn near anything as if it was nothing, in terms of mugen related situations.

 

Well, you can, but as shown in that thread you linked, reactions aren't always very friendly, and if they don't receive any recognition those people will notice themselves that there's just no point to wrapping up others' works and post it. Maybe they try it a second time, but chances are they will go away or try to do something worthwhile to actually get positive attention (which, in the end, is what it all boils down to), either it works out a lot less messy than with all the drama before...

 

Of course there's always extreme cases of people who have a natural 95% learning resistence, but there's also always the ban button. Although I have to admit I've been pretty lazy with moderation myself

[Sybarite Paladin AxL]

I like the way this thread is going. And I especially like how you're trying to promote peaceful and civil cooperation Valodim and common sense at the same time. Keep it up

[-SyN-]

Alright.

 

Your responses are starting to make the new policy @MFG more understandable.

 

MFG hasn't really stooped so low like some say it has, but I see from what we have discussed, you are taking the approach to let majority of things that goes on handle itself without taking drastic actions. I actually like that method and it seems less stressful.

 

Still some moderation will be needed but you have more than enough staff and many users that will quickly point out the obvious.

 

Anyway I am glad we had this talk, I better understand how mugenguild operates now. I didn't fully get the picture at first but I think i got the better understanding now.

[Sybarite Paladin AxL]

So, GC, stalked this topic long enough to provide a verdict yet?

[Gryph]

We are deliberating.

[Valodim]

SyN: Glad to hear

 

We actually took several weeks to write down our thoughts as clearly as possible before zero hour, but it's really difficult to put this into a reasonable number of words if you have to guess how people who havn't thought about this for hours will react. But to expect everyone to read those huge posts and think about it for some minutes wasn't realistic, which is why we just let people vent and get it out of their systems. And as expected, it turned into a complete flamefest. But out of 10 who IMMEDIATELY QUIT and deleted their accounts, maybe two and a half actually stayed away

 

just for fun, small timeline

 

August 27th, server time

~4:20am - the big change

~4:31am - start of big discussion

~5:10am - "I'm going to laugh when this goes to hell. " - KFM

~5:28am - someone took the time to visually express his feelings

 

August 28th

~12:01am - 16th page of big discussion

 

October 20th

~4:07pm "In retrospect, it has all worked out pretty much as expected. " - me, last post in big discussion, page 36, out of which 34 had been posted within five days after august 27th

 

On a related note, new topics, posts and page views have ~doubled since august. many requests, much spam, but still...

 

I might write down some clarifications like the ones I gave here into the information forum soon, now that the mood has settled and people may be more willing to give it a thought - if I find the time

[-SyN-]

So what I am seeing is this, Mugenguild is not a warehouse (as some say), its more open to the mugen community than before.

 

Basically you guys are moving foward while some are still stuck in the past with the common law and such. I can understand that. Anyway like I said, I have a better understanding of the change now. I actually support it.