Joystick Research

[Krosigrim]

Well I have decided to build my own joystick. Basically because I dont like the layout of the buttons on most joysticks out there. And anything under $100 needs replacement of joystick and pushbuttons anyway. They dont use Sanwa or Seimitsu... Why the fuck not, their cheap enough. Pay the damn money to use the quality parts and have a better product!

 

I'm new to this. I am a console guy, and never got much practice using a stick in the arcade versions of fighting games. Well now I have a 360 and the controller does indeed suck balls. On top of the motion control, Id like to have all my buttons of the face... so obviously a joystick is needed here. I want to make the best joystick I can. I don't want to make something adequate, I want the BEST.

 

First off, I've noticed the clicking sound micro switches make on the joysticks. I hate this. It's so annoying! Well I did some research and found adjustable microswitches from Versa-Micro. Groovy Game Gear.com You can adjust these to silent mode. Other than this, the only other silent switches I've seen is leaf. But from what I understand, there not quite perfect for fighting games. Well If I buy these, I'll need to buy a joystick that doesn't have the microswitches on a PCB. What I found was Sanwa's JLW series... this is JLW-TM-8 Lizard lick is pretty cool. Nice guys too.

They also have the UM which is the bat instead of the ball, but I believe I'll go with the ball. Problem is, it doesn't appear they make an octagon gate for the JLW series. I guess I can buy a gate, and customize it, but Id rather not.

 

As for the push buttons, Im thinking of going with Seimitsu PS-14-GN as Sanwa doesnt have screw mounts in black. They have non clicking microswitches and thats what I want. Neither companies seem to carry Blue in the royal color range. All they got in blue is that silly sky blue shit.

 

As for wiring... I see alot of crazy shit going on like this

This is a wireless controller, so my soldering will be slightly different that what you see here. But I gotta get some practice in on soldering. I've never done it before... But I'm sure I can manage.

 

There is a great resource page I found. Slagcoin.com In which I found this chart

 

Well as you see the deflection on the JLW is low... but the tension is high. I dont want a stiff joystick, so I was thinking about switching out the spring. If I do that I think it will raise the level of deflection though, as the spring wont stop the arm as much springing in the opposite direction if I let go from full throw.

 

So... I want an Octagon gate. Circle is available for the JLW, which would be fine. I'm sure I can get to the level where I pull off everything perfectly without having that lock in feeling the octagon gives you. (dragon punches and the like) I'm still trying to figure out if there is another joystick without a the pcb mounted microswitches. that has the octagon gate available. This all of course is from the knowledge, that the silent microswitches are my only option. I don't know of a silent joystick otherwise.

 

Also, I noticed the throw range is far on the JLW. I wonder how this will effect my playstyle

 

The face of my joystick will be tilted slightly forward so it isnt flat on my lap. Also I'm going to make the bottom corners where my wrists lie at 45 degrees so its more comfortable. It will also have a cushion on the bottom as it will be on my lap all the time. No need for rubber feet. Im going all out.

 

So... I'll be researching more no doubt, perhaps even joining other forums to ask general questions, but I want to know what some of you think. What do you like or dislike, what do you prefer in your joysticks.

[Hera]

I'm go for the octagon as well. I'm actually going to have Scott read all this because he was talking about making his own joysticks not too long ago. Perhaps you guys can brainstorm.

[Cominus]

I wanna make one cept dont have no console.

[Shibathedog]

Get a dremel and make an octagon gate, also why all this whining about colors? Just paint it yourself!

[Inky]

Dremeling out an octo from a square gate would be a disaster. and painting buttons doesn't sound like a good idea either.

 

I know nothing about JLWs, both my sticks have JLFs. JLF = . from what I understand, lots of folks like JLW for shooters and JLF for fighters. The JLF is clicky, but loose and responsive. with out being floppy. you can do a dragon punch motion with very little actual stick movement. The clicking isn't so bad. maybe a little insulation in the box would help to mask it. Being that you don't have alot of preconcieved notions from playing with certain sticks you may find you like the square gate. alot of people do. I love the octagon gate myself and can't play for shit with a square gate. this comes from playing american cabinets with HAPP sticks for so long I guess.

 

you may want to think about HAPP sticks though, the perfect 360 stick is optical so no clicking. I don't know if you can wire it to run off a 360 pcb though. Alot of people will talk down on HAPP but they are just elitests. HAPP is what you would find on any north american street fighter cabinet pre SFIV.

 

If I was gonna build a stick from scratch it would have a HAPP stick and Sanwa Buttons. I would mimic the size of the Madcatz TE. it looks huge but it is very comfy to play. And I would use and American style straight 6 button layout. I plugged the first 2 buttons on my TE for a straight 6 layout. I found that I don't use the 'cheater buttons' when playing with a joystick.

 

that wiring job up there is just lazy. I've seen a lot of really neat and tidy wire jobs, so nice that the makers use lucite bottoms to show off the workmanship.

[Shibathedog]

Well you would have to make it from scratch, but I've seen it done before. Also why couldn't you paint the buttons? They come apart don't they?

[Inky]

I doubt it would last long. with the friction of your hand and the friction of the plunger moving in the ring. that paint would end up getting into the buttons and clogging the switch I'm sure.

Siamitsu makes a clear button that you can put art under. you could just put some royal blue paper in them.

[Krosigrim]

I'm go for the octagon as well. I'm actually going to have Scott read all this because he was talking about making his own joysticks not too long ago. Perhaps you guys can brainstorm.

Most excellent. Scott and I could make absolute elite sticks. Shit we could make a $ of selling! But yea, I'll list all the resources I have attained so far in a bit.

 

I wanna make one cept dont have no console.

Shiiit... Make one for your emulators.

 

Dremeling out an octo from a square gate would be a disaster. and painting buttons doesn't sound like a good idea either.

 

Agreed

 

I know nothing about JLWs, both my sticks have JLFs. JLF = . from what I understand, lots of folks like JLW for shooters and JLF for fighters. The JLF is clicky, but loose and responsive. with out being floppy. you can do a dragon punch motion with very little actual stick movement.

 

Excellent information there. Looking at that chart, you see that the throw range on the JLF is at medium, where JLW is far. Also the spring tension is rated at light, where as the JLW is super heavy. It is amazing to me that the JLF still maintains low deflection! Anyway those two stats are definately why it is preffered for fighters. Thanks for the information! Quite alot of help.

 

The clicking isn't so bad. maybe a little insulation in the box would help to mask it.

 

I don't know... I am going to look into the possibility of replacing the microswitches on the JLF even though their mounted to a pcb, lol... but that sound like its not gonna work. I'll look into if it's even possible. (ok I just got done comparing what I can see from pics, I believe I can replace the microswitches... but the real issue is, since the existing switches are placed in such a way, can I mount the replacements perfectly? Dammageing the PCB doesnt matter, as Im not going to use it. But the restrictor plate clips on as opposed to screwing, so if the new switches are too wide {just thinking} it wont be a matter of using spacers like you would with a screw mount...)

 

I could try to insulate it, im sure i can do it the best way possible... but still, nothing is gonna stop it and I want to look into removing that damn sound alltogether.

 

Being that you don't have alot of preconcieved notions from playing with certain sticks you may find you like the square gate. alot of people do. I love the octagon gate myself and can't play for shit with a square gate. this comes from playing american cabinets with HAPP sticks for so long I guess.

 

Well Id rather have equal distance in all directions. I suppose having a square gate would kinda be like having an octagon, in respects to knowing without a doubt your in diagonal... but id rather have a circle gate over a square methinks.

 

you may want to think about HAPP sticks though, the perfect 360 stick is optical so no clicking. I don't know if you can wire it to run off a 360 pcb though. Alot of people will talk down on HAPP but they are just elitests. HAPP is what you would find on any north american street fighter cabinet pre SFIV.

 

Yea looking at a pic of the perfect 360... I think your right. I don't want to skimp at all. Not talking shit, but I want the best of the best. You say JLF is the shit and I believe it as I see reference to it all over. Also the fact that it has an octagon gate... and JLW doesn't

 

If I was gonna build a stick from scratch it would have a HAPP stick and Sanwa Buttons. I would mimic the size of the Madcatz TE. it looks huge but it is very comfy to play. And I would use and American style straight 6 button layout. I plugged the first 2 buttons on my TE for a straight 6 layout. I found that I don't use the 'cheater buttons' when playing with a joystick.

 

LOL cheater buttons. Ill use a... ~35 degree 4 button layout. I think I will offset the last 2. Not sure why but I'll think of something.

 

that wiring job up there is just lazy. I've seen a lot of really neat and tidy wire jobs, so nice that the makers use lucite bottoms to show off the workmanship.

 

 

I doubt it would last long. with the friction of your hand and the friction of the plunger moving in the ring. that paint would end up getting into the buttons and clogging the switch I'm sure.

Siamitsu makes a clear button that you can put art under. you could just put some royal blue paper in them.

I think that was what he was referring to but with paint... But those clear buttons... I was thinking just that after I posted the thread and on my way to work. Well see.

[Krosigrim]

Hmm looking at the JLF all dismantled... I believe I can install the microswitches. The silent ones are the same width but I was just pondering all aspects before. I cut the originals free and mount the replacements on the board. Ill need more tools though... like a dremmel to cut them free... unless I can melt the solder from the other end and pull them free. Who knows... I, of course, will me doing more research on this.

 

Well I have been looking at custom sticks posted on Shoryuken, specifically this thread here. Looking at various case designs. From what I can tell, my specifications are pretty unique. Well certain things are rare at least, while others have not been seen by me. Although I have seen some that have made me consider even more design possibilities.

[Inky]

unless you have the correct tools and experiance I'd keep the box fairly simple. I think the mistake a lot of guys make is making the box too small. some room to rest your palms below the buttons and to the sides is really nice. angling the top may not really be worth it. since it's in your lap you may just be able to adjust your legs to correctly angle the stick. I know in my recliner with the foot rest out. it's perfect for me. I'm prolly not getting 100% reaction time like I would sitting up straight. But damn it's comfortable. hahah.

 

I want to figure out some way to have it waist high standing up, real arcade style. but I don't have room for a table of that height at my pad.

[Krosigrim]

Well I don't have the right tools, but I'll borrow them or rent them or buy them if I have to. As for design... I'll do what works. I'm not sold on angling... but its a design premise I am looking into. I have some cardboard here and I'll get more... basically I'm going to be making mock ups to see how certain things work. As for the case itself, it's gonna be decently sized. I'm a big guy so for the smaller guys, it might feel too big. My hands swallow up every game pad but the 'ole Duke... first gen regular Xbox controller.

 

I'll find the position Im most comfortable with when using a joystick on my lap. I'm not much of an indian style guy, and I always sit on the couch... so no reclining. I think a slight tilt forward might be good, but until I analyze every aspect of my ideas...............

 

I've already bought the wood.

 

Poplar.

 

Fine textured, soft and lightweight. Easily worked and takes paint exceptionally well.

 

Poplar is used for mouldings - furniture - toys - trimboards - tongue depressors - light framing - carving and plywoods.

 

Poplar wood is also widely used in the snowboard industry for the snowboard "core", because it has exceptional flexibility, and is sometimes used in the bodies of electric guitars and drums.

 

Poplar was the most common wood used in Italy for panel paintings; the Mona Lisa and indeed most famous early renaissance Italian paintings are on poplar.

Lol it wasn't cheap either. Why... did I but wood this good and not plywood? Because... It's got to be good. I'm not overly concerned about fucking this project up, as I am quite good with my hands. I was a carpenter for a couple of years and learned a few thing in that field, and I worked hardware for over 3. I have a good deal of projects I had a hand in so I've seen a good deal of things... Hell I have broken so many things too... (combustion hands) LOL I know the ins and outs. But I'll be working on the design for a bit , and make models to get the measurements dead on.

 

The cushion im putting on the bottom is going to be made of this royal blue crushed velvet looking stuff, it's pretty badass. I'm gonna look into those buttons Inky and see what I can do, but if I can, the crushed velvet is going IN the buttons! or... Hmmm if it looks right. Otherwise something of the same color range.

 

This is my baby... I'm going for straight awesomeness. I know most will say don't start big... but fuck it. I got this.