CoinOPS 2 (old dev site)

[PhilExile]

Hi BP,

 

You're absolutely right, this won't be easy. Its funny, stuff always appears to be easy at the outset, but then once you get into it, its a different story. My professor in college used to say this about interactive design: its hard to make functionality appear easy.

 

I'm willing to help you out as much as I can and I have some ideas on how this can work. Cospefogo will bend over backwards to help too.

 

I hear you on the randomness of arcade machine resolutions! TheOldOne made a good point in that this feature will primarily benefit cab users or people like myself who are simulating a cab with a video monitor. As such I think we should focus on getting this part working first and then (maybe) take a look at HDTV.

 

Is there a way to code a resolution check of the ROM before it launches, I.E. - Can CoinOps be programmed to do an if/then process before launching each ROM? I'm guess it would be something like the following -

 

if resolution = 320x240, double native

if resolution = 640x480, native

 

The user could enable "native resolution option" in the Settings menu and only in 480i/p mode. The following would then happen when you launch a ROM:

 

- Launch After Burner

- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 320x224 and gives the following options -

 

Native Resolution (X2)

Fit to Screen

 

or

 

- Launch Capcom vs. SNK

- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 640x448 and gives the following options -

 

Native Resolution

Fit to Screen

 

or

 

- Launch Marvel Vs. Capcom

- CoinOps "sees" its native resolution is 384x224 and gives the following options -

 

Native Resolution Standard* (X2)

Fit to Screen

 

* Capcom is crazy and they made this game, as well as many others, widescreen even though it would be run at SD. So the proper value for 480i/p this would be 640x448, not 768x448. For more in depth explanation of this madness check out this article:

 

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?publicUser...amp;bId=8987002

 

All this said, I don't know how to program, but I think you'll get what I'm saying. Again, thank you for looking at adding this feature. I think it will benefit a lot of Xbox users, especially in the future.

 

Best Regards

[BritneysPAIRS]

how about this option then......if you disable anti-alias it resizes to true res.....it will scale it to X2 if it will fit if not it wont scale it? (this will override all widescreen adjustments(this will work for cab owners only)

 

also in widescreen adjustment options has an option to keep proper aspect ratio...this will mean you have adjust for horizontal games...rotated games....allways keep aspect trueish option

 

 

do 720P uders want true pixel ratio X3 and X4 scaling?

[PhilExile]

That sounds good. We should give it a whirl and see if it works.

 

I can also help you with 720p. I have an HDTV as well.

 

Personally, for HDTV, if you're going to scale it to 3x, you won't get "perfect" pixels anyway. Maybe we could do something like scale it to 3x and make sure antialias is on. I think that'd be best unless we could get 1080i input and do the screen resolution at 4x.

[FrankMorris]

Personally, for HDTV, if you're going to scale it to 3x, you won't get "perfect" pixels anyway.

 

3x is just as pixel-perfect as 1x or 2x is.. Sorry, can you explain?

 

CPS2 example: 1x, 3x

[PhilExile]

Hi Frank,

 

I've messed around with this before and unless you multiply by equal numbers (2, 4, 6, etc), it won't work right. You need to double the pixels or things look off.

 

 

Personally, for HDTV, if you're going to scale it to 3x, you won't get "perfect" pixels anyway.

 

3x is just as pixel-perfect as 1x or 2x is.. Sorry, can you explain?

 

CPS2 example: 1x, 3x

[Cospefogo]

>>>

For 480i, 480p, NTSC, PAL: Original pixels X2 and centered

>>>

 

This is the best way to go.

This option will cover around 600 games that fit, on one way or another, INSIDE the 640x480/720x480 NTSC 480i screen.

I am absolutely sure since I have been installing manually many many CoinOPS for a long time.

 

And YES, there are another 600 games that will never fit on this size, because they are wide screen or something

similar, like the famous CPS1 and CPS2 games.

 

The pixel perfect option should be a option that cover SOME games, and not all.

I myself, for CPS1, CPS2, CAVE Shmups and several other games use the screen stretched on width with bilinear filtering.

There is no other way for this games.

 

One trick that could be AWESOME that MAYBE could help us with PIXEL PERFECT on CPS2 and CPS1 games is the

10x11 pixel aspect ratio, present on Xport's and NES6502 emulators. This option takes a wider screen and SHRINKS it

by changing the single pixel unit dimension itself, and not the whole screen (causing distortion and artifacts).

But I don't know if is it possible to add such feature on CoinOPS.

 

Also, a X/Y offset movement of the screen could be superb.

 

Cospefogo.

[PhilExile]

And YES, there are another 600 games that will never fit on this size, because they are wide screen or something

similar, like the famous CPS1 and CPS2 games.

 

The pixel perfect option should be a option that cover SOME games, and not all.

I myself, for CPS1, CPS2, CAVE Shmups and several other games use the screen stretched on width with bilinear filtering.

There is no other way for this games.

 

Hey Cospefogo,

 

I slightly disagree with you on this. CPS1, 2 and CAVE can be 640 wide, since this is how they were originally displayed in the arcade.

[FrankMorris]

I've messed around with this before and unless you multiply by equal numbers (2, 4, 6, etc), it won't work right. You need to double the pixels or things look off.

 

Hey Phil, look at this:

 

Nothing will "look off" @3X. Things just gets bigger..

[PhilExile]

Hey Frank,

 

I hope I'm wrong, but check out explanation from Cospefogo's site:

 

The vintage consoles have different scrensizes, and it's mandatory to keep them in mind to reach perfect adjustments on Xbox. It's important to mention a example of how the things work: a pixel is a square, and square have all sides the same size (duh!), correct? So, if you take a 2x2 pixels screen and you want to increase it's size - while keeping a correct aspect ratio - the first size possible without any distortions will be a 4x4 screen. You can't resize a 2x2 image into a 3x4, 4x3, 5x2 image, the aspect ratio will be completely destroyed, and so, all the graphics inside.

 

The same happens for 320x240 screens. They must be 640x480 when doubled, they should not be 623x482. Incorrect screensizes can be perfectly used by the Modern Method guys, because all the filters they use will be masking all distortions, but incorrect screensizes can't be used by the Oldskool followers, since the absence of filters will reveal a lot undesirable "artifacts". If you don't like filtering, you should have in mind that it's important to keep a correct size displaying.

 

It was my experience that things were slightly off. You could see it in the numbers and whatnot. Try something like Super Mario Bros in the NES emulator and you'll see what I mean.

 

Again, I hope I'm wrong because it will make bringing perfect pixels to 720p that much easier.

 

 

I've messed around with this before and unless you multiply by equal numbers (2, 4, 6, etc), it won't work right. You need to double the pixels or things look off.

 

Hey Phil, look at this:

 

Nothing will "look off" @3X. Things just gets bigger..

[Cospefogo]

I slightly disagree with you on this. CPS1, 2 and CAVE can be 640 wide, since this is how they were originally displayed in the arcade.

 

 

Hey Phil...

Then so - why the CPS1 and CPS2 games are 384 pixels on width?

For sure, if they are running on a 640 width real arcade screen, then we must have some

piece of software behind it "narrowing" the screen aspect ratio without break the 384x2 formula.

 

384 x 2 = 768.

There are 48 pixels dead, cropped out of sight, 24 on each size.

 

This is why I exactly would like to see the 10x11 pixel aspect ratio on CoinOPS.

It could take the 768 pixels screen and turn it into 720. Better than nothing!

 

And about Frank Morris comments, yes, 1X, 2X and 3X might work.

But it needs to be exaclty 3X, and not 3,1111X or 2,99999X.

ALTHOUGH I NEVER HAD THE CHANCE TO TEST.

I do not have a 720p TV.

=D

 

Cospefogo.

[Cospefogo]

720p is --- 1280×720

 

So, Shinobi game, MAME, could fit perfectly there!

320x224 --- 960x720

 

3X!

 

=D