CoinOPS 2 (old dev site)

[+ T +]

.......why do you support rubbish about crediting screenshot packs?

from people that dont release anything but credit themselves for the tinest of things

I only support credit where it's due. If any of the xtras are in CoinOPS then they should be credited, if you haven't used any of their stuff then they shouldn't be. Simple as that.

[BritneysPAIRS]

Ill spend a full afternoon crediting everyone in all 12gig of sources and support files added...probably 100plus people when the xport sources are updated to the release builds by the xtras team with the opensource code they used from xport....but not till then...so xtras make it happen and credit will be there except for those that asked for it not to be in there...plus all sources will be synced with SVN CoinOPS 2 R3.

 

if you really cared +t+ you would ask them about this? its hypicritical and ill do my bit when this is done.....please dont ask me again they are in my sources that are availbe and ill spend time adding them when the others you support do the right thing.....

+t+ if you want me to respect you tell me to my face and others faces about what you think of people that actively lock there sources?? including locking there names into the sources?? and tell me why you support the people that you know do this?? without questioning it?? do you think a list of credit names is better than the sources for keeping things alive?? nice simple and good question....if you answer this im sure your all good

 

why do you hassle me yet never say anything about this....do you think dev like this...once again hop on msn and ask them to there face.....whats your thoughts on your source code being locked and have you stopped giving stuff out cause people have done this?

[BritneysPAIRS]

sorry guys another pointless night when I could be imporving the drivers.....please send me that test tommorrow for the N64 would be great....I also have some new games that need testing ill put them on FTP tommorrow....

 

ill be off msn the gf is calling...back on tommorrow

[+ T +]

if you really cared +t+ you would ask them about this? its hypicritical and ill do my bit when this is done.....please dont ask me again they are in my sources that are availbe and ill spend time adding them when the others you support do the right thing.....

+t+ if you want me to respect you tell me to my face and others faces about what you think of people that actively lock there sources?? including locking there names into the sources?? and tell me why you support the people that you know do this?? without questioning it?? do you think a list of credit names is better than the sources for keeping things alive?? nice simple and good question....if you answer this im sure your all good

 

why do you hassle me yet never say anything about this....do you think dev like this...once again hop on msn and ask them to there face.....whats your thoughts on your source code being locked and have you stopped giving stuff out cause people have done this?

The sources issue is a tricky one so I'll try and answer your question as honestly as I can. I have to be careful here though as I don't want to be accused of hypocrisy. I never released alterations I made to the FBA-XXX sourcecode until I stopped working on it despite requests from a number of people.

 

I can see both sides of the sourcecode issue here. Presuming you're talking about madmab's build of XPort's emulators, you could definitely argue that they should be open source but even XPort himself didn't release the sources to his emulators while he was actively working on them. Also I think CoinOPS may be partly to blame here as well. I don't know for sure but I suspect one of the reasons madmab hasn't released his sources is because he doesn't want the work he's done ending up in CoinOPS. I remember nes6502 saying he didn't want the Final Burn core to be a part of CoinOPS, but you added it anyway and that's when I started to have reservations about using CoinOPS myself. So while, on the one hand, I would like to see open sources all round, on the other I do understand why he's possibly holding them back.

 

The other thing is, you're not really in a position to demand open sources when you don't release an updated sourcecode for each new CoinOPS release. I know you released an old source a long time ago but that isn't the point. Truly open source means a full compilable sourcecode with every new build and you don't make this available so you're not exactly leading from the front here.

 

I think the idea of madmab's name on the main menu of those emulators is more about letting people know which version they're using (i.e. "Madmab Edition v1.0" as opposed to XPort's original). It helps to avoid confusion and at least he hasn't changed or tried to hide the name of the original emulator (Neogenesis is still called Neogenesis). And the crucial point is that XPort's name is always there too as part of the skins and intro videos so I have no problem with that at all. I'd be fine with your name coded into the CoinOPS as long as the original developers were all credited within the UI and as long as the names of the all the emulators you're using are shown. You need to address the fact that many people simply assume CoinOPS is one big emulator coded by you that just runs games for multiple systems. I know you've never said this, but you do nothing to set that record straight either and I think it's your duty to your fellow developers (on whose shoulders you're standing) to see that they get the credit and not you.

 

I hope that's answered your question.

[BritneysPAIRS]

ive released about 10 lots of source code and xbins refused to upload it...I change my build weekly and there is gigs and gigs of sources so I dont have the time to keep the sources up to date...if people want them for valid reasons they get them...and at times they are released

 

I know of 3 dev that think your wrong about source...two by far are the main people why final burn xxx was there...I see they are both credited now I look ...you will know who they are....

 

but its good to know you think this way....I dont credit anyone and ask the dev if they want credit the only ones that did where surreal even if gogo doesnt get credit and his name is all though sources....if you play surreal a file is created called credit.txt in the main CoinOPS folder....this is an unaltered credit file by them....the real dev know who they are...they know I dont add my name to the build...

 

I know of one dev that stopped working on drivers etc cause of people that refused to release sources not refused to release credit....and other that thinks its really wrong....ask them yourself you know who they are...you must want the true dev to stop giving all the entire scene stuff not just one emu

 

ill print there poilicy on sources tonight for you...+t+ and read it well...it doesnt mention credit it mentions sources.....so its nice you make your own rules up but you dont seem to agree with what the dev want? and go the distance to push your case.....a simple search for final burn or xport release will show you there views...nothing about credit just all about releasing the sources so everything can continue....if you really want to spin those words +t+ you can but they are written on there web sites front pages for you to see...ill also give you public discussion about sources and show you how it effects the dev when you work the way you guys do.......

 

peace though and best of luck

 

then ill leave it up to you....remember these are facts +t+ and you can ask them yourself....I know you know what im talking about.....go after me you are and ignor the first page of dev wishes

[+ T +]

ive released about 10 lots of source code and xbins refused to upload it...I change my build weekly and there is gigs and gigs of sources so I dont have the time to keep the sources up to date...if people want them for valid reasons they get them...and at times they are released

 

I know of 3 dev that think your wrong about source...two by far are the main people why final burn xxx was there...I see they are both credited now I look ...you will know who they are....

 

but its good to know you think this way....I dont credit anyone and ask the dev if they want credit the only ones that did where surreal even if gogo doesnt get credit and his name is all though sources....if you play surreal a file is created called credit.txt in the main CoinOPS folder....this is an unaltered credit file by them....the real dev know who they are...they know I dont add my name to the build...

 

I know of one dev that stopped working on drivers etc cause of people that refused to release sources not refused to release credit....and other that thinks its really wrong....ask them yourself you know who they are...you must want the true dev to stop giving all the entire scene stuff not just one emu

 

ill print there poilicy on sources tonight for you...+t+ and read it well...it doesnt mention credit it mentions sources.....so its nice you make your own rules up but you dont seem to agree with what the dev want? and go the distance to push your case.....a simple search for final burn or xport release will show you there views...nothing about credit just all about releasing the sources so everything can continue....if you really want to spin those words +t+ you can but they are written on there web sites front pages for you to see...ill also give you public discussion about sources and show you how it effects the dev when you work the way you guys do.......

 

peace though and best of luck

 

then ill leave it up to you....remember these are facts +t+ and you can ask them yourself....I know you know what im talking about.....go after me you are and ignor the first page of dev wishes

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm not trying to make rules. But you asked me for my personal view on sources and I gave it to you. I know the devs you mean and I know they believe strongly in open source. But if any developer feels their code is being used in a way they don't approve of then it's up to them to say and not for you or anyone else to be their spokesman. I'd be the first one to support the wishes of a developer in terms of what is and is not done with their code.

 

Since I think we're still talking about madmab's emulators then I understand that XPort would probably want the sources released with the builds. But then, as I said before, XPort kept his sources to himself until he'd finished his work on the emulators, then he released all the sources at once. I think, given those circumstances, he would at least have to allow madmab the opportunity to do the same thing in the same way. I don't know anything about the Surreal sources and if they're available or not. I would hope that they are and that Gogo is properly credited for his work on that project, but I haven't even tried the new Surreal yet so I don't know.

 

And again I'll mention that (even though you're not necessarily wrong here) I think you're on shaky ground putting this argument forward when your own project is not open source. You can make excuses about people who ask for them get them and other nonsense but at the end of the day, open source means that when you release a build, you release the sourcecode that you compiled it from. This isn't as difficult as you make out and I think your argument would be much stronger if you practised as you preached.

 

It's true that very few developers have a policy on being credited where there code is used, but for me it's a matter of respect and not creating misunderstanding that leads to you getting credit for work that isn't yours. It's just common decency. And as I already mentioned I felt that when you used nes6502's code against his wishes you crossed a line and CoinOPS has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since and has left me questioning both your methods and your motives. I'm sure I'm not alone there and I'm also fairly sure that this is one of the reasons why madmab's (and possibly Surreal's?) sources have been kept private.

 

Basically I think the wishes of all developers need to be taken into consideration. The original developers have the right to say sources should be open, but the current coders who have taken up the mantle should also have the right to prevent the work they are doing from being used by someone that (by all appearances) wants to take all the credit for it. I agree that all of this is the sort of thing that stops developers developing and none of us wants that. It's a shame there doesn't appear to be any compromise in sight.

[BritneysPAIRS]

all good +t+ I was just pointing out....people are breaking the base of open sources....and I know iq wouldnt agree with this....I know final burn is nearly all his baby looking though the sources and I know what his terms of agreement is....

 

I also know that you guys twist this...ill add one for you but most dont care...I always credit people on each release if they helped.....eg below is one release

 

**** CoinOPS EPIC R4 (Standalone Release) ********

 

RELEASED

 

added fast PSIKYO core for many games with sound....strikers II and strikers III etc

added fast Daraku Tenshi - The Fallen Angels with sound

added fast Tetris the Absolute The Grand Master 2 with sound

added fast Tetris the Absolute The Grand Master 2 with sound

added fast Tetris the Absolute The Grand Master 2 Plus with sound

added all CPS3 games and all CPS3 No-CD games in final burn core for ram upgraded boxes

added all PGM games in final burn core for ram upgraded boxes (included ddp2 ddp3 ketsui espgunda KOV2 martial m etc)

added DDcrew in final burn core for ram upgraded boxes

journey now playable in mame

knuckle bash 2 now playable in mame

Recalhorn now playable

Command War now playable

Double Dragon 1 fix ending (I hope seems that way)

Changed the way viusally show times played is used and controlled

Changed the aspect ratio for basic users and works for Arcades and Consoles with one click

Removed alot of bugs from V3

Linked the Aspect ratios correction of arcades and consoles and moved it to basic settings

Moved advanced arcade aspect ratios like pixel perfect etc to advanced settings

Added New Romstatus to tagging many different ways

Added New games to catagories

Added New games and alot of Older supported games to Final Burn Cores (speed related) where it is seen fit to do so

Fixed C64 Booting

Fixed auto resize of GB games changing in and out of Aspect Correction

Some tidy ups

 

drivers added

 

DRIVER( kbash2 )

DRIVER( recalh )

DRIVER( commandw )

DRIVER( Ket )

DRIVER( Keta )

DRIVER( Ketb )

DRIVER( Espgal )

DRIVER( Thegladpcb )

DRIVER( Ddp2 )

DRIVER( Ddp2101 )

DRIVER( Ddp2102 )

DRIVER( Ddp3 )

DRIVER( Ddp3v100 )

DRIVER( Ddp3v101 )

DRIVER( Ddp3d )

DRIVER( Ddp3blk )

DRIVER( Martmasc )

DRIVER( Martmast )

DRIVER( Kov2 )

DRIVER( Kov2106 )

DRIVER( Kov2p )

DRIVER( Kov2p205 )

DRIVER( warzard )

DRIVER( sfiii )

DRIVER( jojo )

DRIVER( jojoba )

DRIVER( jojobaa )

DRIVER( sfiii2 )

DRIVER( jojoan ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( jojon ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( jojoban ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( Jojobane ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( redeartn ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( redearth )

DRIVER( sfiii2n ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( sfiii3n ) // NO CD VERSION

DRIVER( sfiii3 )

DRIVER( sfiiin )

DRIVER( sf3 )

 

NOTE FOR EPIC USERS : sfiii3 rom pic and video now needs to be renamed as sf3.zip sf3.png sf3.xmv this is due to sfiii3 is now being used by the final burn core

NOTE Please for each game I wish to know if it runs on an Xbox with 128Megs of ram and how well (also on the trusty ones)

 

Thanks to IQ as usual for his help.....although alot of work was put in by me without IQ this would have never been possible in the first place

 

this is added anytime he helps even tohugh he says he doesnt care or want it...if he wanted it would be in anyway he wanted it....

Everyone that helps thats asks gets this....I know the sources are the way to keep things alive...HK didnt release his and that was against mames wishes and against xports wishes.....also against mine ebsay and bendermike all of which put time into this...I dont keep on about this though...its not what keeps me going...its a shame though....

 

We both know why the xtras team come at me about this...and I know they are not holding there end up and you know this to be true as well...but you bias it against me....when I follow what is asked by the terms and they dont...I just dont follow your rules....my sources could easly be used now to up grade mame .72 on the 360 and that is alot due to IQ but also alot due to me...I wouldnt care about credit and it would be nice just for a thanks to me personally and then nice to see people use it....

 

you know people are quickly forgotten in this business and no one really cares who did what.....its nice to share and keep the thing alive....instead naming the product as your own...which I never do and not releasing sources....I think you know this is worse than me....but ill release a credit file soon or you can create one and ill mod it and add to the public build

 

alot of people with no skills around claiming stuff but I know its holding the scene back...more than they think.....and I know this for a fact just cause people can rename screenshot and dont want others to progress if it means they lose respect....doesnt make it right for them to slow open source dev to the world...as it can be used in alot more places than the old xbox.....they dont even listen to people that have served the scene with the most beloved stuff ever and achieving the impossible to all but a few people in the world

 

these dev have and do close there sources at times because of behavours as mentioned above that you have no issues with......you want to teach me repect when I ask them what they want and I honour there terms and ask them there terms...then you expect me to listen to you and follow your rules....you have heard from one of them, id hope its left at that....ill follow any rules iq sets down to me and ignor others that really have no place asking for respect....im sorry but you know this is true

you know the people you support are hurting things moving forward and you know they dont have the skills and arnt in the same leage as iq...yet you would rather the scene suffers if it means I fail and you know in the end thats actually sad for everyone but still I know you have a desire to do this....its up to you ill keep going anyways as a hobby just like iq said it will be the innocent that suffer

 

Over and out

[+ T +]

these dev have and do close there sources at times because of behavours as mentioned above that you have no issues with......you want to teach me repect when I ask them what they want and I honour there terms and ask them there terms...then you expect me to listen to you and follow your rules....you have heard from one of them, id hope its left at that....ill follow any rules iq sets down to me and ignor others that really have no place asking for respect....im sorry but you know this is true

you know the people you support are hurting things moving forward and you know they dont have the skills and arnt in the same leage as iq...yet you would rather the scene suffers if it means I fail and you know in the end thats actually sad for everyone but still I know you have a desire to do this....its up to you ill keep going anyways as a hobby just like iq said it will be the innocent that suffer

I'm not trying to lay down rules and I'm not appointing myself the "Emulator Police". These are my views and my views only. I feel strongly that it's wrong to allow yourself to take the credit for other people's work. I'm not supporting anyone else here. If I felt as strongly about madmab not releasing his sources I'd be over on the emuxtras forum telling him so, but to me that's a much more grey area on which I'm not really qualified to comment due to my own choices in the past.

 

It's a shame because with just a few changes CoinOPS has potential to be something really positive. My only problems with it are the lack of clarity as to which emulators are being used, lack of credits for the developers who coded them, and the fact that you're still using nes6502's emulators against his wishes. If these things were corrected then I'd have nothing to say.

[BritneysPAIRS]

im using nes6502 core that he said he discontinued final burn not final burn legends his new project....and have loaded all new drivers into them....from iq so its one or two cpps now that are main xport sources,

if he didnt say he didnt discontinue them I wouldnt have used them....most code in that emu is from xport and iq and a bit of stuff and none of it it is mentioned...

 

anyways make me a file as I dont really care one way or other.....I truely have better stuff to do...I know as you do the true dev arnt on your side...its your opion and not theres....no offense +t+ this gets people nowhere and nowhere in the future...all credits can be sourced by looking though all 100 release notes and though the 10 odd sources I released....if you grabbed all of those you can do a list for me...and I have no issues adding it....I do have issues with your stance that clearly goes against all the top dev thoughts and has made them discontinue support at times....

 

send me a file and ill alter it if ness...if you want it done your way just say and ill leave it that way I dont give a rats arse like you think I do...as you can see I left a credit.txt in there that credts most of the people even darknoir etc these people are small fish compaired to those i find helpfull but none the less I left it unaltered and there....its a 1 sec job to add my name as I added HD and other features now...and its a 1 sec job to remove it but I left it in there for anyone to see and read...infact there names are there and not mine.....so people in the future will think they made this

 

I really dont care....and no one I work with does....now all I see is disrespect to those that worked so hard to give you what you have....and then lay the blame on people doing stuff......as I say +t+ this is the last time I say my peace....its all been covered....you know you are speaking for your guys and not the true dev in emu and I have consolted them regulary and read what they had to say....if they instruct me otherwise it will be done....send me the file it wont make any diff to me....I know nes was upset I used his sources but he told me it was ok he just didnt expect I could update them so fast as iq work is generally drop and drag to update.....

[+ T +]

Ok, this may not be complete; I know there are a lot of people who have helped behind the scenes that I'm not aware of and it's up to you if you wish to credit them or not. Similarly I've not included yourself or iq_132 in this list as that's entirely your choice as well. Some of this I was planning to add to the list that Mega Man (?) started before his thread was locked. Shame on whatever staff member was responsible for that as I feel it was entirely constructive and many more inflammatory threads have been allowed to go unlocked.

 

In any case, these are the emulators that CoinOPS is using along with the names of the developers that should be credited as best as I can establish them. Forgive me if I've left anybody out.

 

MAMEoX / MAME-X / Launcher:

Erik Abair, opcode, luckyMIC, superfro, XPort, bendermike (if that's the version CoinOPS is using)

 

Neogenesis / SNES9Xbox / PCSXbox / Vice64X / Xboyadvance / MednafenX / MekaX:

XPort

 

Surreal64:

oDD, lantus, freakdave, GogoAckman, Team XXX

 

KI-XXX:

lantus, GogoAckman, Team XXX

 

Final Burn:

nes6502 (I think this core should be removed but if you insist on keeping it you should at least credit him)

 

DoomX:

lantus

 

This is the information I'm suggesting should be visible within the CoinOPS UI. I also think it would be appropriate to include any credits.txt files that come with the individual emulators in the CoinOPS package (I know Surreal has one, not sure about others). Not a huge list I'm sure you'll agree and not at all intrusive to have an option to display it. As you say it's a 1 second addition that in my opinion at least would make a big difference.

[BritneysPAIRS]

the core is iqs now....100 percent driver wise....if not I could use gogo one easy as

 

ill add that file now let me get back to work please have fun.....there is no way its going in GUI ever and was voted against by every user except you guys...pretty much....if you want to continue this go elsewhere you will get that file unaltered and thats it from me....im doing other stuff

 

attached CoinOPS soften filter to consoles

attached CoinOPS 10x11 pixel ratio to consoles

attached CoinOPS antialising to consoles

 

added +t+ credits.txt sorry iq even though you did most of it you didnt make the cut

 

made it easy to boot with no roms