Good news everyone!

[neoryu]

Not to knock anyone who wants pixel perfect, or Cospefogo. He knows a lot about native resolutions for vintage hardware and he really, really cares about this hobby (as we all do). But I'm not so convinced that there's a true way to define perfect pixels on a screen that's either 4:3 or 16:9 these days. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

 

Fortunately for me, I literally grew up in US arcades at their peak. Over here, I can confirm with 100% certainty that "pixel perfect" was nonexistent then. And in my opinion, it still is now. Even on RGB monitors here, the games were all stretched to fill the screen, be it horizontally or vertically. No monitor here fit perfectly around CPS2's 384 x 224 resolution. NeoGeo MVS? It was filling our screens too and still looking gorgeous by those standards. Monitors were either 4:3 (mostly, and sometimes huge in size) or 3:4 for vertical shmups in major US arcades. Between 1990-2000, gamers dropped their coins into these machines and were still wowed by arcade graphics for two reasons:

 

1. the fact that most game consoles could not compete with arcade game performance then, whether polygonal 3D or 2D sprite based.

 

2. the vast majority of US gamers did not own an RGB monitor, therefore we were stuck with composite video or the terrible RF signal. Seeing an arcade game was like going from 20/50 vision to 20/20.

 

I'm not dismissing pixel perfect or anyone who prefers to have it. I just realize that "pixel perfect" is a nonexistent concept in reality. It exists only in subjectivity and comes down to personal preference. Look at FBAL in 480p with Scanlines enabled on a 4:3 CRT. Or look at any of Madmab's edition of emulators in HD. Put them side by side with real hardware. Notice how much better the Xbox versions look. Lucky for me, I was able to do this with a few of my MVS and CPS2 boards just out of curiosity. The disadvantage some people claim the Xbox has of not being able to output native 240p is actually an advantage if the right initiative is taken. If anything, trying to make these games fit in visually with a primitive video standard is working backwards.

 

In the end, it all really depends on user settings, what kind of display the user has, and what type of connection they're using from the Xbox to the display. Those 3 things are crucial. If someone wants to add pixel perfect to an emulator, there's no problem at all with it being included. But the notion that an emulator is somehow "disadvantaged" without it is a bit ignorant and shortsighted. Fact: Almost every graphical filter we use distorts the sprites. Yet, most don't care because they just want the games to "look better" to them. Pixel Perfect? No different. It is still distorting the image in a way that may or may not make it "look better" to a user. 99% of our console classics did not have borders on our screens.

 

Just my personal take on it. The developers here will decide if they want to add it or not, but it's been a fun discussion for a moment.

Edited July 29, 2011 by neoryu

[Sparda]

CPS2 was made to be played on 4/3 ....even if the resolution is wide..it must run on 4/3 screen...pixel perfect is a good feature....but whats more important us how your SDTV is set...finding the correct geometry, purity..adjusting yoke..purity rings, convergence; playing with magnets...only "few" peoples are skilled and are able to set a SDTV perfectly...even PVM needs tweaking.

[+ T +]

While we're discussing screen sizes, can I just ask everyone a question? Currently FBL uses separate screen size settings for every single game and I've always found it inconvenient having to adjust each game individually to fit my screen, and even more inconvenient having to use approximate values meaning that no two games are ever exactly the same size. I've also never come across a situation where I need a particular game to have it's own separate screen settings.

 

So my question is this; would it be better to just use a single global screen size setting for all games similar to the system MAMEoX and it's derivatives use? So any changes you make to the screen size are carried over to all games or do people actually use the individual sizes for some purpose? Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

[destronger]

While we're discussing screen sizes, can I just ask everyone a question? Currently FBL uses separate screen size settings for every single game and I've always found it inconvenient having to adjust each game individually to fit my screen, and even more inconvenient having to use approximate values meaning that no two games are ever exactly the same size. I've also never come across a situation where I need a particular game to have it's own separate screen settings.

 

So my question is this; would it be better to just use a single global screen size setting for all games similar to the system MAMEoX and it's derivatives use? So any changes you make to the screen size are carried over to all games or do people actually use the individual sizes for some purpose? Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

 

i like your idea... madmab emu's do this and it's very convient. i have a 50" and having to adjust everytime i try a new game gets old.

 

could you somehow do this for capcom (sf2 type) & snk games too? i set the buttons a certain way and use the same set up for them all.

 

 

side note:

 

could ya tweak mameox next...

[A Murder of Crows]

While we're discussing screen sizes, can I just ask everyone a question? Currently FBL uses separate screen size settings for every single game and I've always found it inconvenient having to adjust each game individually to fit my screen, and even more inconvenient having to use approximate values meaning that no two games are ever exactly the same size. I've also never come across a situation where I need a particular game to have it's own separate screen settings.

 

So my question is this; would it be better to just use a single global screen size setting for all games similar to the system MAMEoX and it's derivatives use? So any changes you make to the screen size are carried over to all games or do people actually use the individual sizes for some purpose? Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

 

i'd like to see a "global" setting and an individual setting. global setting would put everything at a certain "starting point" but would be able to be changed. individual game settings would override global settings.

[+ T +]

Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

Quoted for clarity.

 

 

could ya tweak mameox next...

I'd like to have a go with MAMEoX as I'm sure there are many drivers that could be added from subsequent versions of MAME. Unfortunately the source to MAMEoX128Plus which I consider to be the most solid version of the MAME core on the Xbox was never made available so I'd be going back to the same old version that CoinOPS is based on. Plus there's the issue of time as well, I'd like to make a go of keeping FBL alive and I won't be able to devote the kind of time I have over the last couple of weeks to it on a continuous basis, so it'll be a case of doing what I can when I can which doesn't really allow for a second concurrent project.

Edited July 30, 2011 by + T +

[Bigby]

Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

 

Well if it's a choice between the two, for now I'd say go with the single global screen size setting.

[Sparda]

+1

 

global size settings with an option for "pixel perfect" like madmab's emus

[PhilExile]

Hey +T+

 

I'm actually curious about how many people here are using SDTV or HDTV. Do you think you could put up a poll?

 

Also, I think it would be fine to do a global, scaled setting - but leave the option for a custom screen size. I wouldn't take features away.

 

What were the enhancements in MAMEoX128Plus?

Edited July 30, 2011 by PhilExile

[destronger]

Clearly it would be great to have the option for both but right now I'm interested in which people would prefer if it could be either one way or the other.

Quoted for clarity.

 

 

could ya tweak mameox next...

I'd like to have a go with MAMEoX as I'm sure there are many drivers that could be added from subsequent versions of MAME. Unfortunately the source to MAMEoX128Plus which I consider to be the most solid version of the MAME core on the Xbox was never made available so I'd be going back to the same old version that CoinOPS is based on. Plus there's the issue of time as well, I'd like to make a go of keeping FBL alive and I won't be able to devote the kind of time I have over the last couple of weeks to it on a continuous basis, so it'll be a case of doing what I can when I can which doesn't really allow for a second concurrent project.

 

well... your doing a fine job. keep on keepin' on.

[Sparda]

the drivers seems to be "finished", Error404 will add them to CoinOPS soon...iq_132, did you make any speed improvment, optimisation since the video showing the games ?

 

Doesnt matter..CoinOps lack of option when finalburn core is running...cant wait for the next FBL update. KUTGW +T+

Edited July 30, 2011 by Sparda