Screen Compare - NES vs. WII vs. XBOX

[PhilExile]

Hello,

 

I had a chance to do some comparison shots of the NES favorite, Super Mario Bros. See below for the interesting results. Note: I only did SD tests for this round. I may add HDTV versions later. Please make sure to click on each screen to view it full size.

 

NES - 240p, Composite

 

 

The original hardware. Note: The blue sky continues on the right side of the screen.

 

 

WII - 240p, Component

 

Wii Virtual Console in action. I was actually surprised about how saturated the image was. However, upon closer inspection it looks

like the right values, just bumped up a lot.

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 240p, Frosty VGA Cable -> Extron Emotia

 

The color values here aren't quite as saturated and I sorta prefer this to the Virtual Console. The image isn't quite as sharp here either, however, this

is probably due to my having the 'peak' set to minimum on my VGA switch - so this could be sharper.

 

Also, the Extron Emotia has a horizontal stretch dial that can increase the default image size. This works better than I thought. When looking at

these images, I can barely tell the difference - width wise - between this and the Virtual Console version. (Another reason to get an Emotia)

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, Component

 

 

Standard component output here. It actually looks pretty good, but the image is fluttery due to it being 480i. Colors are nice and bright. The only

downside here is that the 512 image width is apparent. The picture isn't too great, just focus on the lower portion of the image.

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, S-Video

 

 

 

Standard s-video output here. Again, the image looks really good, but the colors are a lot less vibrant. (More noticeable in person)

 

(Continues....)

Edited September 20, 2011 by PhilExile

[PhilExile]

CLOSEUPS

 

NES - 240p, Composite

 

 

 

WII - 240p, Component

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 240p, Frosty VGA Cable -> Extron Emotia

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, Component

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, S-Video

 

[PhilExile]

LAST ONES - The Pole

 

I thought this was interesting because of the texture that is created in the pole at the end of a Mario level by composite output. We can also take a look at Blaarg's NTSC filter - Composite compared to the real composite output on the same monitor.

 

NES - 240p, Composite

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 240p, Frosty VGA Cable -> Extron Emotia - BLAARG'S NTSC FILTER - COMPOSITE

 

 

It looks pretty good, but its not 100% spot on. Though, I think you can tweak this filter to your liking. Also, the video output quality may vary from

NES to NES.

 

 

WII - 240p, Component

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 240p, Frosty VGA Cable -> Extron Emotia

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, Component

 

 

 

XBOX - Nestopia 480i, S-Video

 

 

That is all.

[+ T +]

Now this is good stuff. But could you ditch those ridiculous pixel-perfect values and post up some shots of the Xbox screen scaled to the same proportions as the NES display? Since most people don't have the extra hardware to produce the 240p output.

[PhilExile]

I don't see the point. It would introduce pixel distortion (probably on visible when the screen is moving) and bilinear would need to be turned on to mask it.

[Cospefogo]

Great stuff Phil!

Thanks for the pictures.

 

But +T+, if we scale the Xbox screen to any given proportion

the aspect ratio will be broken, and there will be artifacts in the

screen while it is moving...

 

...unless you are in bilinear or trilinear, of course.

 

Well, I am a bit confused now.

Where are we all trying to go from here?

 

 

C.

[PhilExile]

Ha, no where! I determined with this new round of test that my previous experiment with SUPER STAR WARS on Snes9x was flawed. I had 10x11 pixel ratio turned on by mistake on my SDTV, Sony PVM setup.

 

Basically, you can mimic the 'look' of SNES/NES games with your Xbox emulators on either SD or HDTVs. Just for clarity:

 

SDTV Setup

 

- Buy an Extron Emotia | See here for more details: http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

- Buy either a Frosty VGA cable, YUV -> VGA converter, or build your own VGA cable

- Set your dash/emulator to 480p

- Set your emulator to 'perfect pixel' size - i.e. 512x448

- Once everything is hooked up, stretch the horizontal size of the picture to the maximum on the Emotia

- Flip the interlacing switch on the front of the Emotia to activate 240p

 

HDTV Setup

 

- Buy an SLG3000*

- Buy a YUV -> VGA coverter (I've had spotty luck with the Frosty cable on modern HDTVs)

- Set your dash/emulator to 480p

- Set your emulator to 'perfect pixel' size - i.e. 512x448

- Set the pixel mode to 10x11

- On your TV, set the video mode to stretch to fill the screen. This is different on every TV, but you are basically taking the 4:3 signal from the Xbox and scaling it to fill the 16:9 viewing area of the TV

 

* The SLG3000 (& VGA converter) wouldn't be necessary if scanlines were built into the emulator. I *think* this is planned for the next release of SNES9x by Madmab.

 

Enjoy!

 

Well, I am a bit confused now.

Where are we all trying to go from here?

Edited September 20, 2011 by PhilExile

[+ T +]

Yes, you will have to enable hardware filtering and preferably the Simple2X filter to eliminate the blur that introduces. There is no way around this because, no matter what you do, the image must be upscaled. Since it cannot be stretched to an accurate size in the hardware, the stretching must be emulated in the software. The only way point filtering will be useful is if you intend to leave the screen at 512x448 which looks absolutely nothing like the output of the system and is therefore not viable. Yet again, I'm totally puzzled by this pixel-perfect stuff; it just looks silly to me. Hardware and software filtering is really the only option for anyone who wants their NES emulator to look as close as possible to an NES.

 

EDIT: Just read your latest post. Obviously I'm talking about reproducing the look of the original system without having to purchase extra hardware.

Edited September 20, 2011 by + T +

[Cospefogo]

* The SLG3000 (& VGA converter) wouldn't be necessary if scanlines were built into the emulator. I *think* this is planned for the next release of SNES9x by Madmab.

 

Hmmm...

 

I have been helping MadMab to test his scanline filter attempts in MednafenX-NES

but we have been out of luck. MadMab was able to create the filter using some old

code left behind inside Xport Atari800 emulator, however the filter was breaking the

60fps framerate integrity in some games, for example, Akumajou Densetsu was

running in constant 42fps.

 

Also, he was thinking to try to "import" the scanlines filter used in ZsneXbox, however

the whole filter is coded in the most devilish language of the world --- assembly.

Assembly is evil. MadMab is doing his best.

 

Ouch!

C.

[+ T +]

Also, he was thinking to try to "import" the scanlines filter used in ZsneXbox, however

the whole filter is coded in the most devilish language of the world --- assembly.

Assembly is evil. MadMab is doing his best.

 

Ouch!

C.

FBL's scanline filter isn't coded in assembly as far as I'm aware. Maybe he'd have more luck with that. I believe the exact same filter code is used in NestopiaX.

[PhilExile]

XBOX - Mednafenx-NES 240p, Frosty VGA Cable -> Extron Emotia REDUX

 

By turning up the peak on my VGA switch, I was able to sharpen the image. Now the image is on par with the Wii's Virtual Console

emulator - the gold standard in my opinion. Not bad for a 10 year old console.

 

Edited September 21, 2011 by PhilExile