SNK is too lazy!!!!!

[Carnicero]

There's a great guide on GameFAQs that fixes most of the incorrect SNK character colors in CVS. Athena gets fixed up pretty well.

[KaliKOt]

Noooooooooo the Shotokans got an upgrade in CVS. Bison was updated too. I agree they cut and pasted most of them, but at least they had new effect sprites. Look at how cool Blanka's electricity is. In SVC they cut and pasted all the SNK characters and added a few animations just like what they do in the KOF series.

[Carnicero]

SNK updated about as many characters as Capcom did for the Shotokans and Bison. Genjyuro, Earthquake, and Mr. Karate unless you consider him a new head on Takuma (which is technically the truth).

 

I consider the effect in CVS a mixed bag. Terry's moves look worse with the pixelated flame (especially the Geyser). Iori and Kyo's Oniyakis are much more pixelated than they were in SNK titles, both Kyo's supers look nasty too. The fireballs are a little out of place for the Shotokans, I prefered the old style with the hand silhouettes. But you're dead on with Blanka, both him and Benimaru's moves look so much cooler with the new effects. Especially Blanka, where he really glows now. It's wierd, some characters benefit from the new effects in the CVS series, but others' moves just don't look right.

 

Sammy's going to throw a major wrench in the spokes if they're in charge of graphics for the rumored Sammy vs. Capcom. I don't think SNK or Capcom can hold a candle to the Guilty Gear style. As much as I love Guilty Gear, the characters are too wierd. Capcom or SNK characters have much more personality. And there are no transvestites or pedophiles in the lineup.

Edited January 21, 2004 by Carnicero

[zero129]

I think SNK has a slight lead on Capcom.

 

Take the two most popular characters, Ryu and Terry as an example.

 

Ryu got a new look from SF1 to SF2 incarnations, another in SFA/Marvel, and the final one in SVC (done by SNK).

 

Terry Bogard changed in FF1, FF2, the Real Bout games, early KOF, late half KOF, Garou/KOF2003. An in CVS (by Capcom).  A lot of the Capcom characters in SVC were redrawn for the first time in literally a decade by SNK, not Capcom. But again, Capcom did their fair share of SNK character redraws in CVS. Both CVS and SVCs' redraws should be considered a non-issue, since the character HAD to be redrawn or the game would have looked more awkward than the Marvel series.

 

Most Capcom changes were color edits. Terry, and others from SNK, had numerous color changes as well throughout the course of KOF. Terry's pants, for example, have different shades of blue, as does Ryu's entire default color outfit in the SF2 series. In the end, the majority of SNK characters have more redraws while Capcom tends to stick with color alterations (especially in the SF2 series).

 

Of course, this is excluding CVS and SVC. I don't generally credit those games in graphics arguments because the sprites had to be redrawn for consistency sake. But if you wish to include them, then it results in a bit of a tie, since Capcom was forced to redraw more characters in CVS than SNK had to with SVC.

 

I guess my opinion could be countered just by total makeovers alone. SNK had quite a few, with Kyo a couple times, Terry once, etc. Capcom had Chun Li recieve a needless (but appreciated makeover), but did do quite a few makeovers bringing Final Fight and SF1 characters into the rosters. But SNK did their fair share with Athena, Ikari Warriors (OK, bad example), Art of Fighting, Fatal Fury, Samurai Showdown, etc.

Ok then, ryu changed a lot in the sf2 games (not the svc or cvs games) here 'ill start with sf1, then sf2, and he looks better in ssf2t too then what he used too, then in sfa, then in mvc2, then in street fighter 3 (and every capcom characters had makeovers in them games, you don't believe me??, load up the arcade version of each of them games (i know you cant use mvc2 or sf3 but that doesn't really matter), then capter an image of the characters from all them games i just said, anyone you want you can use, then post back your results, i done this with kof games ages ago, and and i can tell you, since kof 94, the snk charecters have not really changed at all, and some of them never changed at all. but thats not really snk's fault imo, its just the hardware they had to work with, they out done them selfs too soon and left them self's with no room to expend, once they move onto the atomiswave they will then have much more room for updates, but like you already said, lets hope they don't over do it again, and once again leave them selfs without much room to expend.

 

But other then that, if sammy is doing sammy vs capcom, it will give capcom characters a good kick up the ass, and show them what they should of, and could of been doing all this time, but even if capcom are doing it i'd say they will give the characters higher res gfx anyways to match up with the sammy ones.

Edited January 21, 2004 by zero129

[Elazul Yagami]

i'd rather have 10 interesting characters worth playing with

 

 

than 32 rehashes of the same characters, or 32 dull characters.

[zero129]

i'd rather have 10 interesting characters worth playing with

 

 

than 32 rehashes of the same characters, or 32 dull characters.

Whats that meant to mean??, is that about capcom or snk?, cos imo both games have some very good characters, no one here is saying they don't, all we are talking about is who does the most updates to their charecters.

[Carnicero]

load up the arcade version of each of them games (i know you cant use mvc2 or sf3 but that doesn't really matter), then capter an image of the characters from all them games i just said

 

I did exactly that with Ryu and Terry (the two characters that appear the most for each camp). That list of game changes I made a few posts back wasn't imagined, it was culled from the process you suggest in your quote. From all games. Excluding ONLY the Street Fighter III series. I have all the games in either ROM or console port versions and went through them all out of curiosity. I watched a slideshow of the pics I took and the SNK games stood out more, while Capcom games had way too many pallette changes between entire series even, not within a single series like your KOF observation. I even went and look through Darkstalkers, which had utterly no changes in any of both the American or Japanese verions, excluding the change from red blood to Mortal Kombat style white milk/sweat)

 

since kof 94, the snk charecters have not really changed at all

 

That's rediculous. Kyo has DRASTICALLY changed twice, other characters were added from prior SNK games (in case you want to count Final Fight characters in SF), Terry changed at least 2 or 3 times since 94, Andy Bogard changed repeatedly, Robert Garcia went through outfit changes, Athena got a retro costume similar to her original game's outfit, and so on. Street Fighter really only drastically changed Chun Li.

Edited January 21, 2004 by Carnicero

[The TeamPlayer]

I have to agree that capcom is lazier.

 

At least SNK is still releasing new fighters... even if they do reuse stuff.

[random guy]

Hi, reading these posts made me curious about some technical emulation questions I never really had thought of before. I know this isn't really the place, but you seem to be the guys to answer them (plus at least this forum is active). I don't really know much about the technical side of emulation, bt I am curious.

 

Here is the question: Why is it that emulators like Kawaks and Nebula can only emulate cetain arcade games? I realise that there is a difference between CPS-1 CPS-2 and Neo Geo - but as I understand it people have been making games on these systems for YEARS.

 

Plus, IF Kawaks etc... CAN run SVC Chaos etc...after some tweaking, and that game came out in 2003 (I think), does that mean that modern arcade machines are still being made to support these dated systems?

 

If that is the case, does it not seem odd that we are up to trilinear gourad-shaded graphics (or whatever) on the PS2, X-BOX etc..., whereas arcade game makers are still making games for a system which (I believe) had its peak in the early 1990s?

 

What about the more fancy updated arcade machines? Are they in neo-geo format or some new system? If this new system is around and better, why are people still making games for the Neo Geo?

 

Sorry if these questions are really stoopid, but I hope someone can answer me.

[StriderVM]

OK, they are actually very interesting questions, and I'll try to answer them as far as I can.

 

For different emulators emulating only certain hardware, err, ask them. Really, since they are the ones who programmed them..... ^^

 

But if your question is like, why isn't Marvel VS Capcom 2 emulated or something like that, it is because that emulation is well, emulation, try to look up it's definition somewhere.... =P

 

Also, since emulating another hardware is hard (The faster the hardware, the harder it is to emulate), and most often there are no released technical specifications of the hardware. (No hardware stuff to copy to, no emulator)

 

Also, the consoles of today either use DVD or any similar stuff. They are actually relatively inexpensive to produce and copy. And since the aim for arcade machines is long life, they have to manufacture "cartridge" versions of these arcade games. (I'm talking about Soul Calibur 2, Tekken 4, because they run on similar hardware, the PS2) which can be a whole lot more expensive.

 

Err... To make it short. Making games on old hardware is cheaper. Especially since most arcade games run on cartridge format (Or something like it) instead of cheaper but less reliable formats like CD or DVD.

[Carnicero]

Kawaks, Nebula, etc. only emulate certain games because they choose to. That's why sites like Zophar keep a program like Kawaks separate from MAME. MAME just has more hardware emulation while Kawaks or Nebula only bother with specific arcade hardware.

 

As far as games coming out on old hardware, SNK's reason is because it's cheap. It's cheaper to ship out a lot of cabinets with older hardware than to move to new hardware. That's why future titles are looking to come out on Atomiswave, because SNK made a deal with Sammy, and Sammy wants to be stronger in the arcade market. NeoGeo is pretty much dead. Naomi, Atomiswave, CPS-3, etc. are not emulated. So KOF2003 is probably one of the last games you'll see emulated within a short span of the arcade machine being released...at least until CPS-3 and Naomi encryption is broken. On the other side of the fence, Capcom switched to Naomi because CPS-3 turned out to be a dud. SNK has lucked out milking old hardware for so long while Capcom couldn't do anything special with cutting edge hardware. Naomi is pretty much the safest hardware to develop for. It's not emulated, it's getting old enough to be pretty cheap to implement, and so many games have come out for it that quality is good. Sorta like how the first PS2 games sucked until developers got a hang of how to develop for the hardware.

 

At least that's how I understand it, and I'm surely no expert. Maybe someone here knows a bit more, because I've only become interested in arcade hardware in the past few years. In fact, emulation was my first exposure to NeoGeo games, being that my town's arcades never carried any SNK titles while I was growing up.

 

EDIT: Strider beat me to it! I type too slow.

Edited January 22, 2004 by Carnicero