L.S.D Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Do you guys know that the most famous scientists in history are all God-fearing person? They are all inspired by the Bible that lead to their amazing discoveries. And this is taken from "Who is Jesus?" by Nicky Gumbel. "I am told that in a communist Russian dictionary Jesus is described as ‘a mythical figure who never existed’. No serious historian could maintain that position today. There is a great deal of evidence for Jesus’ existence. This comes not only from the Gospels and other Christian writings, but also from non-Christian sources. For example, the Roman historians Tacitus (directly) and Suetonius (indirectly) both write about him. The Jewish historian Josephus, born in AD 37, describes Jesus and his followers thus: Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians so named after him, are not extinct at this day. So there is evidence outside the New Testament for the existence of Jesus. Furthermore, the evidence in the New Testament is very strong. Sometimes people say, ‘The New Testament was written a long time ago. How do we know that what they wrote down has not been changed over the years?’ The answer is that we do know, very accurately through the science of textual criticism, what the New Testament writers wrote. Essentially the more texts we have, the less doubt there is about the original. The late Professor F. F. Bruce (who was Rylands professor of biblical criticism and exegesis at the University of Manchester) shows in his book Are the New Testament Documents Reliable? how wealthy the New Testament is in manuscript attestation by comparing the texts with other historical works. The table below summarises the facts and shows the extent of the New Testament evidence. Work When written Earliest copy Time span (yrs) No. of copies Herodotus 488-428 BC AD 900 1,300 8 Thucydides C. 460-400 BC C. AD 900 1,300 8 Tacitus AD 100 1100 1,000 20 Caesar’s 58-50 BC AD 900 950 9-10Gallic War Livy’s 59 BC-AD 17 AD 900 900 20Roman History New Testament AD 40-100 AD 130 300 5,000+ Greek (full manuscripts AD 350) 10,000 Latin 9,300 others F. F. Bruce points out that for Caesar’s Gallic War we have nine or ten copies and the oldest was written some 900 years later than Caesar’s day. For Livy’s Roman History we have not more than twenty copies, the earliest of which comes from around AD 900. Of the fourteen books of the histories of Tacitus only twenty copies survive; of the sixteen books of his Annals, ten portions of his two great historical works depend entirely on two manuscripts, one of the ninth century and one of the eleventh century. The history of Thucydides is known almost entirely from eight manuscripts belonging to C. AD 900. The same is true of the history of Herodotus. Yet no classical scholar doubts the authenticity of these works, in spite of the large time gap and the relatively few manuscripts. As regards the New Testament we have a great wealth of material. The New Testament was probably written between AD 40 and AD 100. We have excellent full manuscripts of the whole New Testament dating from as early as AD 350 (a time span of only 300 years), papyri containing most of the New Testament writings dating from the third century and even a fragment of John’s Gospel dating from about AD 130. There are over 5,000 Greek manuscripts, over 10,000 Latin manuscripts and 9,300 other manuscripts, as well as over 36,000 citings in the writings of the early church fathers. As one of the greatest textual critics ever, F. J. A. Hart, said, ‘In the variety and fullness of the evidence on which it rests, the text of the New Testament stands absolutely and unapproachably alone among ancient prose writings.’ So, kids, do more readings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 The New Testment was re-written during the Dark Ages to be up-to-date. Jesus might of or might not of been extisted at all. And since it is very late, and I'm out of ideas to counter. EXUBERENCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.S.D Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Opppss...the table is confusing.... But the main point is: If we are using empirical statistics to determine the exact truth to the fact, the New Testaments will prove that it is really real and based on real historical events since there are so many copies of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 Opppss...the table is confusing.... But the main point is: If we are using empirical statistics to determine the exact truth to the fact, the New Testaments will prove that it is really real and based on real historical events since there are so many copies of it.It could of been written by a monk who wanted a great story about a messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.S.D Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 It could of been written by a monk who wanted a great story about a messiah. Yes, maybe But can a story written by a monk affecting millions and millions of lives around the world? Only the work of God can do that. Amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriderSkorpion Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Opinions, opinions. Don't forget about Buddha, he affected millions around the world. Also, the "historical" evidence sounds more like heresay rather than actual evidence. Currently, nothing supports the idea that there was a Nazareth in Israel, not even the historian Josephus, that you've mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.S.D Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Opinions, opinions. Don't forget about Buddha, he affected millions around the world. Also, the "historical" evidence sounds more like heresay rather than actual evidence. Currently, nothing supports the idea that there was a Nazareth in Israel, not even the historian Josephus, that you've mentioned. You got me there! I am no historian, so I can't prove what you have just said The bottom line is: Having a religion is a good thing, IMO. THere is no religion in the world that ask you to do evil. Whether it is Judaism, Islam, Christian or Buddhism, all religionsask us to live in peace with each others and love one another. So, basically, have a religion, kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 WTF is this thread about...I just read through it and I am confused...anyways, some people take religion to far e.g. Terriosts...they think killing innocent men, woman and children is what "GOD" wants... IMHO the abuse of Religion and the ignorance of man is the cause of todays many problems that face humanity...e.g. Wars etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMondo Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Opinions, opinions. Don't forget about Buddha, he affected millions around the world. Also, the "historical" evidence sounds more like heresay rather than actual evidence. Currently, nothing supports the idea that there was a Nazareth in Israel, not even the historian Josephus, that you've mentioned. You got me there! I am no historian, so I can't prove what you have just said The bottom line is: Having a religion is a good thing, IMO. THere is no religion in the world that ask you to do evil. Whether it is Judaism, Islam, Christian or Buddhism, all religionsask us to live in peace with each others and love one another. So, basically, have a religion, kids Peace blows. I'd rather die on a killing spree than live...in peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StriderSkorpion Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Have a religion if you want. I won't judge because everyone is entitled to their opinion. Who am I to say what did and didn't happen? I wasn't there, so I can only rely on what information people have chronicled and archeologists discover. If there really is supernatural stuff in this world, it would be hard to prove. After all, it's hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it doesn't exist. What was my point? Dunno, other than maybe enjoy your freadom of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForceX Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 (edited) Opinions, opinions. Don't forget about Buddha, he affected millions around the world. Also, the "historical" evidence sounds more like heresay rather than actual evidence. Currently, nothing supports the idea that there was a Nazareth in Israel, not even the historian Josephus, that you've mentioned. You got me there! I am no historian, so I can't prove what you have just said The bottom line is: Having a religion is a good thing, IMO. THere is no religion in the world that ask you to do evil. Whether it is Judaism, Islam, Christian or Buddhism, all religionsask us to live in peace with each others and love one another. So, basically, have a religion, kids Peace blows. I'd rather die on a killing spree than live...in peace! Kanti if you really believe that why aren't you in the Armed Forces???? Why aren't you in Iraq??? Why are you instead on the net talking crap??? Man I hate it when people talk crap when they don't understand anything...War is not good. My family has lost 2 uncles because of war (They were in the Indian Army and died defending their country) and it is not easy...so STFU Edited April 20, 2004 by ForceX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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