What The Bloody Hell?

[OverlordMondo]

Cancels..air dashes...no idea at all.  Probobly why I lose so often.

How can you not understand these. Many fighting games have cancels while few have air dashes.

 

A cancel occurs when you input a move command while the character is in the middle of another move. The move "cancels" into the new move immediately.

Super moves can be also cancelled, thus the term Super Cancel.

 

Guilty Gear X and XX had air dashes for one. Just like a dash, but you preform it in the air.

Yeah...I just don't play many fighting games.

In fact the last fighting game I played (other than MVC 2) WAS Street Fighter 2...

Based on the amount of fun I'm having with MVC 2 though, I'm gonna start playing more of them.

[-VIOLENCE-]

Oh man, I missed out on such a fun conversation. You show him K'Dash!

 

But back to the matter at hand, boozing while posting is just wrong. There are better things to do when you're boozing. 

I would, but I don't want to get banned.

Truely, I don't think you would be able to. I've been very busy this week and if I had enough free time as you my friend, I could seriously pull out the big guns and point out the many flaws of your so called "in-depth" comparison.

 

For all of you who didn't read the pages of posts, this "flame war" started with the SF2 vs MarioRPG for the best game ever created poll. Considering the fact that SF2 could never possibly be able to claim the crown as "Best Game Ever" I pointed out the fact that there are many other games that have higher quality in content.

 

This is SF2, not DBZ. So, your wrong. It shows that you didn't read my post as well as you though. You can do specials, blocking techniques were basic, ala FF.

 

I agree with you, this isn't Dragonball. You can't fly or power-up or create spirit bombs. However I don't see any relevance to why this fact is used to detail the reason why there isn't any blocking techniques.

 

You may be considering the fact that I did forget that SF2 Turbo does have specials, however, not once have I said I was using it as a comparison to Guilty Gear. I was only comparing GG to SF2, the original game. But, I'm at fault as well. For I too have not cleary defined which GG I was using in my defence. Of course I would've have used the up to date and latest version, GGXX for the PS2, or arcade.

 

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'd like to point out that if you are going to use a game that has many versions, I suggest you cleary define which one you will use as a comparison to GGXX. Not only will be reader be unable to follow what your talking about, there may be confusion created because of this fault.

 

PS. Only the CPS2 version of SF Turbo has specials, the SNES or Genesis only have turbo mode availiable with new characters as its new components.

 

Let me quote my self "SF2 was known for its great playablity, control and detailed (note: low-resolution) and interesting characters"

 

See that line with "was?"

 

Yes there, look, I'll show you again. "SF2 was known for its great playablity, control and detailed (note: low-resolution) and interesting characters"

 

WAS! YES! I said "was" because it was KNOWN to be the best.. You blind fsck.

 

In a discussion about which game is the "best" (The game which is most outstanding or excellent; tops all others) we cannot talk about "was". In this case, The best game in gameplay, graphics, sound, replayability, presentation, and overall greatness that was ever created to this point in time.

 

Exactly, If you want me to compare system mechanics, trust me, you don't know how deep I can go between each game. But since you won't listen to my words, I'm typing it up anyways.

 

Street Fighter 2 was revolutionairy, it's detailed graphics at 320x230 running on CPS2, those to rival a Neo-Geo system. The controls were excellent, everything was responsive and characters were original at the time. After countless updates and tweaking (I'm saving the trouble of typing out a whole fscking series of compairsons betweem each and every single SF2 game to GG). SF2turbo was granted as the best version of SF2. Why? Faster gameplay (to rival, guess who? SNK's Fatal Fury series), more possible combos, character balancing and design.

 

SF2 had simple walking back and forward, and was highly accliamed as a tournement worthy game. It's fast paced engine and combos were limitless. Matches between players were and still are amazing to this day for a game thats 12 years old. The engine still impresses those today who didn't know such an old game could be tournement worthy. Sure there isn't move cancaling as there is today in almost all fighting games these days. But you still want me to continue into getting into the systems, then I shall.

 

Street Fighter 2's game system which complies as 6 buttons of various strength of punches and kicks made gameplay albit better on controlling your attacks and speeds of the attacks. The super bar at the bottom would build up as you attacked your oppodent with simple attacks or a combination of attacks known as combos. There was not a short hand of top tier characters either, almost the whole roster was considered "top tier." Which made it very worthy of being a competive game.

 

 

If you want to compare gameplay mechanics in depth, then I'm all up for it. Let me get a few facts out first. Once again, you have used "was". Todays date is April 30, 2004. I don't understand why your mindset would be still focused a decade in the past. SF2 had to be tweaked and improved countless times of course to get to its perfect version of SF2t. There are only two GG's (not including remakes), the first one for PC and PS1, and GGXX for the PS2 and arcade. In fewer tries, GGXX was able to perfect its system and create an overall better game. GGXX has amazing controls and uses various play mechanics to help players adjust and make their own play style. GGXX does use air dashing that could be found in other older games like FF, but it does it effectively, allowing the player to attack multiple times, cancel in the air, and to use the green shield to protect against onslaughts.

 

SF2t was released a long time ago, and you say it "was" tournament worthy. I would understand if it was tournament worthy back then because it was the best fighting game availiable. But 12 years from that date and still tournament worthy? I would probably guess so, but guessing is the best I could do. I don't think you either know the true fact to this, you just assume it. Usually, 12 year old games don't usually stay in arcades, especially in Canada. You are from Montreal im correct? I've been in tournaments for GGXX in many places around Toronto and Quebec, however, during my visits, the only Street Fighter games I see there are SF3 Third Strike, and to a lesser extent, Marvel vs Capcom. Now are these tournaments you go to public? Or inside your basement? Hmmm.

 

If you want to talk about combo's, I suggest pitting SF2 Turbo vs GGXX would be unfair, but since you insist that it is a better game, ill in depth with combo's and moves.

 

Street Fighter uses a 6 button format. Each button has its own attack for air, standing, and crouch moves. Along side with these basic attack, you have special moves. Lets use Guile as an example, Guile has the Sonic Boom, the flash kick, throw, and two specials. So, if I add all these numbers up, the move list would comprise of roughly 23 moves. (note: not too sure how many specials, may range 1-3)

 

6-Air attacks

6- Ground Attacks

6-Crouching attacks

2-Ground specials moves

2-special meter attacks

1-Throw

 

With these moves, lets see the possibility of combos.

 

-Sonic Boom, Jump Roundhouse, Standing Short, Sonic Boom, Standing Fierce,

Sonic Boom, Standing Fierce

-Crossup Short, Duck Short x 2, Super

Sonic Boom as he jumps over it, Duck Fierce, First Sonic Boom hits,

Flash Kick

-Duck Fierce, Super

-Sonic Boom, (Miss)Knee Thrust, Sonic Boom, Duck Jab x 2, Standing Jab,

Sonic Boom, Standing Short, Duck Short, Knee Thrust

-Sonic Boom, (Miss)Knee Thrust, Duck Jab, Sonic Boom, Close Fierce,

Sonic Boom, Backfist

-Sonic Boom, (Miss)Knee Thrust, Sonic Boom, Duck Jab, Standing Jab,

Sonic Boom, Duck Strong, Sonic Boom, Standing Roundhouse

-Sonic Boom, Jump Fierce, Duck Strong, Super

-Crossup Forward, Backwards Forward, Duck Jab x 3, Super

-Blanka jumps over you, Sonic Boom hits from behind, Duck Short x 2, Super

-Sonic Boom over him, Knee Thrust, First Sonic Boom hits, Sonic Boom,

Duck Jab x 3, Super

 

I've found about 10 combos for Guile. If you want a definition of "limitless" read on.

"Seemingly boundless in amount, number, degree, or especially extent"

 

Guilty Gear X2 uses a 5 button setup, not 4. The basic moves are as follows:

P-Punch

K-Kick

S-Slash

HS-High Slash

D-Dust

F+HS-Throw forward

B+HS-Throw Backwards

 

As in Street Fighter 2 Turbo, each of these basic attacks can be used standing, crouching, or in the air. However, unlike Street Fighter 2 Turbo, different moves can be executed if you hold a direction right before you use an attack. For example, with Axl, you can push Forward and Kick and he will launch the sickle in the air instead of kicking the opponent. Depending on which character, moves and range from 20- 35 depending on who your using. Another feature GGXX has an advantage over SF2t is the fact that the basic attacks, and in conjuction with direction attacks can be done multiple times exploding the amount of combos that are availiable to use.

 

Now, lets look at Chipp as the character representing GGXX, his combos are as follows. Im sorry if you can't understand the lingo, you have to be GGXX player to understand the symbols and such. The numbers are directions, use the keypad to understand a bit more.

 

:: no meter ::

 

S©-6P(1)-S©-6P(1)-2D -> 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(124)

 

S©-6P(1)-S©-6P(1)-S©-6P(1)-2D -> 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(141)

 

d.S-S(ji)-2H -> 22H, air.P-K(1) -> JC, dj.P-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP+S(2)

(141)

 

d.S-S(ji)-2H -> 22H, air.K(2)-S -> JC, dj.P-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP+S(2)

(154)

 

d.S©-6P(1 ji)-S©-2S-2H -> 22H, air.K(2)-S -> JC, dj.P-P-K(1)-S -> JC, dj.H(2) -> DP+S

(161)

 

6H -> 22P, S©-S(ji)-2H -> 22H, air.K(2)-S -> JC, dj.P-P-K(1)-S -> JC, dj.H(2) -> DP+S

(197)

 

:: one meter ::

 

d.S-H -> DP(1) -> RC, j.P-P-K(2)-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.P-P-K(2)-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.P-D

(147, vs Axl)

 

d.S-H -> DP(1) -> RC, 6H -> JC, j.P-K(2)-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.P-P-K(2)-K(2)-D (slam), 41236H (otg) d.S-6P-S-H

(192, vs Axl)

 

d.S-S-H -> DP(1) -> RC, 6H -> JC, j.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, tj H(2) -> DP(2)

(203)

 

S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 41236H, d.S-H -> JC, j.P-P-K(2)-K(2)-S (land), P-H -> IAD, iad.P-D

(169, vs Axl)

 

S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 41236H, d.S-H -> JC, j.P-P-K(2)-K(2)-D (slam), 41236H (otg), d.S-6P-S-H

(177, vs Axl)

 

d.S-S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 41236H, 6H -> IAD, iad.P-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.P-P-P-P-K(1) -> JC, dj.P-P-P-P-K(1) -> JC, tj.P-P-P-P-P-K(1) -> DP(2)

(188)

 

d.S-S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 6K -> IAD, iad.2K(3) (land), 2P-S©-2D, 41236 (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(190)

 

d.S-S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 6H -> JC, (air) 236P (land), S(f)-H -> IAD, iad.P-D (land), 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(214) (215 if start with S-H... or S-2S-H)

 

d.S-S-2S-H -> 236S,236S -> RC, 6H -> JC, (air) 236P (land), S(f)-H -> IAD, iad.P-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.P-P-P-P-P-K(1) -> JC, dj.P-P-P-P-K(1) -> JC, tj.P-P-P-K(1) -> DP(2)

(222)

 

d.S-H (or S-S-H) -> 236P -> RC, 6H -> JC, j.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC. dj.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP+S

(214) (216 if starts with d.S-2S-H)

 

:: 1.5 meters ::

 

6H -> 632146H -> FRC (first hit) (land), H -> IAD, iad.P-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC j.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, tj.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> DP(1)

(190)

 

:: two meters ::

 

6H -> 632146H -> RC (pillar) (land), 6H -> JC, K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> DP+S

(278)

 

- 41236H -

 

41236H, d.S(f)-H -> IAD, iad.P-K(2)-S (land), H -> IAD, iad.P-S -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> DP(1)

(108, vs Pot)

 

41236H, d.6H -> IAD, iad.P-K(2)-S (land), P -> JC, j.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> JC, tj.K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1)-K(1) -> DP(1)

(139)

 

-...236K (non CH) -

 

236K (land) H -> IAD, iad.P-D (land), 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(127)

 

(corner) 236K (close) -> RC, air.K(1)-S (land), j.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP

(144)

 

- 41236K -

 

41236K, 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(104)

 

41236K -> FRC, K-H -> IAD, iad.P-D (land), 41236H (otg), d.S©-6P(1)-S©-H

(130)

 

41236K -> FRC, S-S(ji)-2H -> 22H, air.P-K(1) -> JC, dj.P-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP+S(2)

(144)

 

41236K -> FRC, S-S(ji)-2H -> 22H, air.K(2)-S -> JC, dj.H(2) -> DP+S(2)

(149)

 

- Dust -

 

D /\ ([8]D-D-D-S)-H -> DP+S

(144)

 

D /\ ([8]D-D-D-D-D) -> DP+S

(148)

 

D /\ ([8]D-D-D-D-S)-H -> DP+S

(156)

 

(semi far) D /\ dj(9)K(1) -> JC, tj.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, qj(???).H(2) -> DP+S

(91)

 

(far) D /\ IAD K(1) (land), j.K(1)-K(1)S -> JC, dj.K(1)-K(1)-S -> JC, tj.H(2) -> DP(2)

(95)

 

 

Im glad you didn't compare the number of combos used in GGXX to SF2t, you really would've been shot down (figure of speech)

 

Running? It's a fscking 12 year old game DUDE! IT'S SIMPLE COMPARED TO GG.

 

It doesn't matter if its 12 years old, if its deciding which is better, age doesn't cut as a defence for faults.

 

Animations? What you say? Animations were bullshit? Beg to differ, from a technical view, the animations were flawless, straight forward, and perfect. And running at a lower resolution I might say, which is pretty game good. WANT TO KNOW WHAT ELSE? SNK'S NEO-GEO GAMES RUN AT LOWER RESOLUTIONS TOO! AND THE GRAPHICS ARE JUST AS GOOD AS A FSCKING ATOMISWAVE PLAYING GGXX!

 

Yes, but you forgot "was". Because a game has a lower resolution, it doesn't necessarily mean the graphics would be as detailed or better drawn if you change the settings. Yes, I know KOF games are lower res but I'd still beg to differ that the quality of art and animation would be changed if it were upgraded. They would have to be totally redrawn to get the same effects, simply changing the res won't cut it. As for the graphical detail and realism, Sf2t does not incorporate real effects such as visible breath in cold places, such as E-Honda's stage. Nor does it have dust effects when the characters jump, or the lightning effects when two weapons clash together. Neither does Kof, so I don't understand why you'd think they simply changing the res would give sf2 all of these things that GGXX has.

 

Now Guilty Gear. Introduced in 1998 on the PS1 also a worthy game to play against players. Now, what was in it? Ground Air/Dashing. Everything else is what we've seen before. What was new besides dashing? Nothing. Nothing else, but dashing. Now to bring up other points

 

4 Buttons = Punch Kick Slash Hard Slash

Chaos Bar = Special Bar

Fukki = Breaking fall

 

These 4 buttons are based on which game? Samurai Spirits. Sammy was founded by the same people who made Samurai Spirits series for the Neo-Geo. You can see their elements in this game. Highly original Sammy. Stealing and taking your own button set up. The slashing for controlling your weapon's attack and those hand to hand moves to close encoutners. You are limited to what to do.

 

Chaos Bar is basically just a diffrent name for "Special Bar" or Power Gauge. No argument.

 

Fukki, otherly known as Fall breaker that SNK has been using in KOF since 98.

 

Now what I say to you is. What else am I missing? What? What? What?

 

Air dashing! Why over course, your beloveded dashing, hey buddy, have you played Fatal Fury? yeah dude, its there, same year as SF2 came out too.

 

Animations? The animations in Guilty Gear were and are medicore at best. They also ran at a higher resolution to give an illiusion feel of high-quality, and highly detailed characters and background. Which is a "short cut" and not using any system to its full potential.

 

You are talking about GG, I was always talking about GGXX. I've never played the original, but if there flaws present in the first version, you have to give them slack for the mistakes that were there. If you don't, then I guess we can talk about all the negative things that were apparent in SF2, for the snes. As I've said before, GG took less tries to perfect its system. How many versions are there of street fighter 2? Wow, its just mind boggling, especially when they use different names for different regions.

 

And it really isn't stealing if you were the people who originally created that button setup. To think that you would use that as a fault to the gameplay mechanics are laughable, I can just say that Capcom was stealing the idea of the ability to walk and jump in videogames from Super Mario.

 

Now what I say to you is. What else am I missing? What? What? What?

 

Air dashing! Why over course, your beloveded dashing, hey buddy, have you played Fatal Fury? yeah dude, its there, same year as SF2 came out too.

 

Animations? The animations in Guilty Gear were and are medicore at best. They also ran at a higher resolution to give an illiusion feel of high-quality, and highly detailed characters and background. Which is a "short cut" and not using any system to its full potential.

 

The character tiers in GG/X/XX are Millia, Dizzy, Faust, Johnny, Bridget, I-no, Chipp, Baikan and Sol. Now compared to SF2, GG/X/XX is ridden with many, many flaws in gameplay. From dust loops to infinities, which is like MVC/MVC2. (Which most of them were fixed in #Reload)

 

As i've said before, air dashing in GGXX was used efficiently compared to FF. Mulitple moves and the ability to get behind your opponent is a very deadly tool to have in your arsenal. Plus, you didn't mention the ability to double jump and rebound characters off of "walls".

 

You would say that GGXX animations are mediocre? On what basis? Sf2t turbo had the very worst graphics and animations of the other street fighters (street fighter alpha 3 and street fighter 3rd strike.) The characters themselves were drawn in very little frames per second compared to GGXX. If you look at the Ryu in Sf2t, he is nothing compared to the anime detailed version in Alpha 3. Ryu, Ken, Sagat and Blanka are just to name a few who has drastically changed in facial and physical appearance in the newer street fighter games if you look at SF2t.

 

I think you never actually played GGXX before, and only from speculation have you based your "tier' line-up. If you actually own the games, such as myself, and spend some real time on it, you would understand that all characters are deadly weapons if used properly. I think the possibility of a number of characters over powering others is unusual, since every character in fighting games can be mastered and used for serious owning. Take for instance, I've always thought Choi from Kof to be a weak character, but in tournaments that i've participated in, i've seen players do 1 character victories with him. So please don't give me this crap about characters over powering others in GGXX.

 

Oh, and I'd like to point out you forget Testament, Ky Kiske, Venom, Zappa, Anji, May, and Slayer, who all have combos that can do half of a full health bar of damage and more.

 

Infinities and Dust Loops can be used in GGXX, but however, you make it sound very simple to do. Only people who invest a lot of time mastering the art of roman cancelling and remember a huge button sequence can do them. Plus, you forgot about the burst technique that allows you to break out of any combo or attack.

 

You have made a mistake, I didn't say SF2 was the greatest game ever. I just pointed out facts that you don't want to accept.

 

And just to annoy you and you alone

 

Actually, my original statement, was:

So you compare SF2 to Guilty Gear? Hahahhah, wow your smart. Final Fantasy 7 not as good as FF1 for the nes? Dear God plz spare me.

I was saying as a reply to another individual who didn't believe me when I told him SF2 could never be the best game ever. However, since you questioned me, you immediatly went to the defence on how the game is by comparing it. I did say how can you compare, but that was just a figure of speech. I didn't mean for you to take it literally and actually do it. What I really meant was in what ways is SF2 superior to GGXX. But you've already said that SF2 isn't the greatest game ever, therefore without need to write up this whole subject, I have won.

 

Im going to leave it at that. I do not wish to go into depth about FF7, because my original intent was to prove the GGXX is far superior to SF2. I'm not going to reply to this subject anymore, since the topic is already dead, and I am a very busy man.

 

Now you should read up on your history and do your homework properly before arguing with me. Now, how dare you to say that my statments are not correct and say that I'm wrong. You're whole outlook on this converstaion as of now is to stay hate to SF2 because you do not want to go back to your roots.

 

There I did do my homework, are you happy mommy?

 

Just to be clear on one thing, I do not hate. I do not hate SF2, or any other incarnation of the series. I bought the actual cartridge for 70 dollars back in the day and have played it during my childhood.

 

But because of this fact, I cannot state that SF2 is the Greatest game ever, because I am a man who takes the matter and reviews it properly, and not just stating its the best game just because it brings back fond memories.

 

Its really not nice to pit GGXX against SF2, but K' Dash has done the opposite and tried to prove SF2 is the better game. This is just my reply, and opinion.

 

Peace out.

haha this guy wasted time typing all this shi*

 

as if i give a damn

 

[-VIOLENCE-]

I hope someone *coughviolencecough* can comfirm my statement about metrosexuals.

umm,

 

lets see..... metrosexuals just a def for an advanced "pretty boy/swinger"

 

 

- and that's all folfs

[Wizard]

I hope someone *coughviolencecough* can comfirm my statement about metrosexuals.

umm,

 

lets see..... metrosexuals just a def for an advanced "pretty boy/swinger"

 

 

- and that's all folfs

Well crap

[Agozer]

Long-ass rant

haha this guy wasted time typing all this shi*

 

as if i give a damn

 

Did you really have to quote all that?

[NeoMaster]

Well, it was only directed to K'dash, I wasn't expecting anyone else to read it. Its not a big read anyways, most of it is quoted from K'dash huge post on page 6 i believe.

[Wizard]

The posts are so long because of Quoting so much, which is what I did mostly :/ talk about b00z now!

[Gryph]

I think we should all sit down, smoke a peace pipe, and agree that Pit Fighter is the greatest fighting game ever. Street Fighter and Guilty Gear have NOTHING on that piece of art.

Edited May 1, 2004 by GryphonKlaw

[Agozer]

I think we should all sit down, smoke a peace pipe, and agree that Pit Fighter is the greatest fighting game ever. Street Fighter and Guilty Gear have NOTHING on that piece of art. 

....Slaves of the evil bong. Pit Fighter wins hands down.

[Wizard]

I think we should all sit down, smoke a peace pipe, and agree that Pit Fighter is the greatest fighting game ever. Street Fighter and Guilty Gear have NOTHING on that piece of art. 

....Slaves of the evil bong. Pit Fighter wins hands down.

Like...WHOA DUDE, ITS THE GREATEST.

[NeoMaster]

Pit Fighter is an awesome game. Not only are the graphics the most realistic of this century, the controls and playability are top notch. The character selection is far better than any Capcom or SNK game, and tournaments are never complete without a google amount of pit fighter combatants.