Hot Question...

[The TeamPlayer]

2D fighters. Why try to fix what is not broken?

 

3D fighters always try to make everything overly complicated. And after all these years of playing games I am lazy and do not want to have to spend long learning a billion techniques for these crappy slow 3d fighters.

 

Toshinden and MK5 are the best 3d fighters. I wish they would make a new Toshinden, one with actual speed.

 

Tekken is far too repetitive in it's fighting system. Basically I just have fun playing 2D fighters.

 

I don't care about CG, realism, FPS, or learning ultra new ways to do the same thing every other game does.

 

I want fun and 2D fighters never fail in that department run in and start clobbering with your biggest combo, they won't sidestep and throw you and you won't get any ring outs.

 

And stuff from BGs has a nack for getting in the way in 3d and control is not as tight and characters just don't seem as well designed.

 

I could go on forever but 3d in general I don't believe improves any game, just makes them cheaper to make and gets oohs and ohhs from the masses. If I want special effects I will watch a movie.

 

They ruined Mario, they ruined the Mega Man X series, they ruined Sonic, the castlevania games, nomore final fight or TMNT4 turtles in time type games and fighters are all the 2d that is left

 

[/rant]

Edited May 5, 2004 by The TeamPlayer

[Agozer]

I hate the fact that only a handful of developers acknowledge the potential of 2D gaming nowadays. Sure, 3D games looks nice and have potential too, but it seems to me that games are made only because of the graphics and the 'ATI fanboys'.

[random guy]

2D because its fast and furious. I also prefer the way super moves and such look in 2D games. Everything seems more vibrant and alive.

 

But in time when 3D can be rendered at such a fast rate with all the cool special effects as 2D fighters, then I'll have a change of heart. But the current state of 3D fighters doesn't really impress me.

Yeah, what he said . That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say, although I will say that to me it feels like you have more control over a 3D game - to me it feels more like you're actually controlling the fight. So 3D games have a lot of potential, but like people have said, they need to be sped up. I've always felt that something else that would be cool is a PS2 ninja game, where the left analogue stick controls your attacking moves, and the right analogue stick controls your blocking moves. For example, if you move the analogue stick from up to down you'd do a big slash down, but your opponent could parry that if he angled his sword correctly to block it using the right analogue stick. Did anyone play 'die by the sword'? That sort of control, only 3rd person not 1st person.

[wacko_jacko]

3D all the way!!! What they lack in speed and frantic gameplay, they make up with fluid and realistic animation, controls and gameplay.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love 2d fighters, and there will always be a place for them. 3D games are just the future!!!

 

Please Note: this opinion is coming from a 3D games fanatic

[Wizard]

There are games like The Rumble Fish that make 3D gaming seem like 2D. I'm up for all kickass (3D) battle systems that handle easy like Soul Calibur.

[Chaotica]

Of course 3d has more potential. But 2d was, and still is, simply more fun. And I personally like 2d art over 3d art, especially when it comes to fighting games.

[Riot.EXE]

Ok...guess I should add my own 2 cents into my own damn topic...'fore I do, let me state that I am not biased towards either dimension...

 

The 2-D standpoint

 

...When it comes to the potential of 2-D fighters, its all about the fluidity in moves and creativity in character design for one...There's a bit of a limit to this since its on a flat plane, which means you'd have to draw everything in yourself (with MK 1-3 and the wannabes after being the exception) and drawing the same character over and over and over for a moveset is time consuming...which explains why there's head swaps (Ryu & Friends being the prime example)...because there's deadlines to make, so there isn't always time to create fully original characters. As for the creativity issue, its also hard to incorporate certain types of designs onto the characters, such as readable text. the only character that was able to pull off such a thing was Dee Jay, but that was because his pants had symmetrical letters written vertically, so it wouldn't look any different when he faced either direction (thanks to EVERY 2-D developers bad habit of just flipping the sprites rather than realistically having them properly positioned when the sides reverse), but had the "MAXIMUM" been written horizontally, it would have caused a problem, thanks to the lazy tactic I mentioned. Another flaw in the visuals is shadowing, if you notice in some 2-D fighters (mainly anything Streetfighter), characters don't have real shadows, just circles or hearts of some sort (SF2). Thats inexcusable because other companies have been able to pull off realistic shadows, and more (look at KoF 1996, in the Korean Teams Stage, the water caused by the flooding actually showed your reflection). and then there's the lack of upgrading sprites for crossover games and the such, mainly the CVS series...because most of the Capcom side didn't get visually upgraded, the end result became quite ugly when watching some matches (such as...anything with morrigan)...

 

...There are actually some pros to these flaws...mainly that it allows for faster gameplay in some cases. and more data saved for other things (such as more detailed backgrounds...), but one of the main reasons why people don't like 2-D anymore is because of laziness in design...

 

...Now for the actual fighting. There's also a flaw thanks to designing in the 2-D plane...because of the hand drawing issue, it also means that creating various moves will become more tedious, so each character has only but so many moves...so there isn't much to see in terms of a characters arsenal of moves...(hence why we look for glitches and such...Guiles handcuffs anyone?) and with that lack of moves, its easier to get bored with the 2-D fighters, should you not be willing enough to gain some real skill in them to at least put up a good fight. The main thing here is for the developers to create more innovative fighting systems for use on the 2-D plane...but all these flaws can be fixed as long as developers are provided with this one thing...

 

...TIME...Developers need to take more time to look into these flaws in designing 2-D fighters...as long as they have that, the new generation of 2-D fighters will become more fun and furious to play. Also, so called "fans" need to stop being so impatient with developers...Making games at all take a lot of hard work...

 

 

 

The 3-D Standpoint

 

...I personally feel that 3-D games allow for more innovation-with-ease in terms of design, simply because the technology is different, and the inclusion of the Z-Axis. Thanks to that magic axis, developers can work better in creating innovative character designs and moves, due to the ease in art transferring (through skins) and motion capturing and posing (for realistic and non-realistic fighting styles). What makes this ease such a great thing, is when it comes to upgrading the characters through sequels, all that needs to be done is to update the skins and models for the characters, rather than having to re-draw everything from scratch as you would have to do in a 2-D fighter sequel. This allows the developers more time to create new characters and new moves for the previous characters...Unfortunately, this can also create a ton of laziness (see Tobal 2's quest mode characters, or the Jacks and Eddie/Tiger/Christie in the Tekken series...or Battle Arena Tochinden 3)...which can also diminish the players from wanting to play them...people like originality more than repetition (at least...I HOPE so...)

 

...In terms of actually fighting...3-D games have more of an opporitunity to have more innovative fighting engines, such as interacting with backgrounds and the such. (not to say that 2-D fighters couldn't pull something like that off, but I feel that it would be a hell of a lot harder to do...) So with that, 3-D can create much more interesting fight scenarios, with the right set of creative minds behind them...

 

...While there aren't as many flaws (in my opinion) towards creating 3-D fighters, they're still very apparent...but can be fixed with the same answer, and that is more time to develop more great ideas in design and engines...

 

End Scene...

[random guy]

the only character that was able to pull off such a thing was Dee Jay, but that was because his pants had symmetrical letters written vertically, so it wouldn't look any different when he faced either direction (thanks to EVERY 2-D developers bad habit of just flipping the sprites rather than realistically having them properly positioned when the sides reverse), but had the "MAXIMUM" been written horizontally, it would have caused a problem, thanks to the lazy tactic I mentioned.

 

I don't really see what the difference would be, because seeing a t-shirt (or word) from the other side would look like a mirror image of the original anyway.

[Sybarite Paladin AxL]

yeah, but they ussualy flip a char's sprite and we see Ryu in the same stance leftwise or rightwise, instead of creating a separete sprite for each side!!! That's sucks but what can you do....

and the pants Dee Jay wears have the word written vertically on both sides like this!

M

A

X

I

M

U

M

.......

[Riot.EXE]

I don't really see what the difference would be, because seeing a t-shirt (or word) from the other side would look like a mirror image of the original anyway.

In a 2-D fighter, because "Maximum" was written with all symmetrical letters vertically helped it stay "Maximum" when facing either direction, but if it was horizontal...it would read "Maximum" when facing right, and "Mumixam" when facing left...but had it been a 3-d fighter...that wouldn't be a problem because of real rotation rather than flipping

 

...get what i'm saying?

[Sybarite Paladin AxL]

yeah that's the thing I was trying to explain!!! Usually clothes on chars

that have horizontal words have that problem but only cuz of the laziness

of creators to make another stance for a 2D fighter!!!!!!!