Need some answers :)

[Keith]

I don't really see anything wrong with the current thread. A few questions were asked and now we are just waiting for some answers.

[Alpha]

When I first approached the Cassini Team, they stated to me their emulator was completely LEGAL. They gave me the email from Sega as evidence and I read the post on EmuFanatics that Keith is still working to find more information about it. No one besides Keith and others really cared at the time on what this email could lead up too. I think that once the Cassini Emulator was released, slowly in a matter of hours, people realized that there was something fishy about the emulator. I was very surprised since I believed in the Cassini Team and was helping them resolve these issues with people stating these claims on the emulator. EmuFanatics then made their "Warning" message which furthermore surprised me since Zophars posted the emulator and hosted a mirror as well which still as of now supports the emulator.

 

I continued to help the team and tell them that they have to comment on these accusations, but I then noticed that everything they said was countered. Not one thing got through EmuFanatics (which is pretty damn good ) and I also was getting concerned that people might start thinking 1Emulation likes to help these kind of emulators which is not true at all.

 

Then I started talking to people, a lot of people, including Keith which I am proud I did. It lead me to the conclusion that this emulator had severe problems. I then talked to more people, comparing what Keith said and what others said. I was really in a blackhole since people were saying it's legal and support it and others said no it's a bad idea and it can potentially hurt 1emulation.

 

Then when I checked 1Emulation again, I noticed that people on EmuFanatics started calling us names. I then let it go when I talked to Keith since honestly 1Emulation has gone through a lot and all I am trying to do is make it as legal as possible. It's hard to make such a transition. Once I let that go, I read with Jiggs said, added it into the bank of thoughts on the emulator. I also then read what EmuFanatics had to say about what Jiggs said as well since he brought up some interesting points.

 

Later I talked to Miskie and he stated that this emulator is purely ILLEGAL. I then got an instant message from IJTF_Cinder which most of you guys read and it stated that the emulator was a complete "obfuscated" program and also that he could not stay with a site that supports this. I then told him to post it in the Poll thread which I later made because I honestly had no idea what to do.

 

Finally, after I posted the Poll, I had another conversation with Barnito. He stated that he's alright if we can't support the emulator and then he asked "What Poll?". By the time I knew it there was a ton of mass messages on Direct Connect. It was to over a 100 people which stated to basically "VOTE YES" on the poll, nothing much more. After I saw this, my decision was done and so was Magnis's. Shortly after the topics were deleted and now were here.

 

To make a long story short, there is not much I can say. When I was presented this emulator, it was showed to me as legal and it looked as if everyone was welcoming it to release until it was actually released. It was my fault that I didn't research the emulator more before I supported it. However at the exact same I was supporting it, I was also researching it. It's a shame the poll was deleted in my opinion, but then again I'd probabaly would vote not to support this emulator in the long run.

 

It's just too much to handle for an emulator, I just took my first break off the computer to think about how to make this post after 6 straight hours. (didn't even eat lunch today) I really wish that this never happened, but at the same time it allowed me to meet new people and even gave me a better understanding on how emulation works.

 

Finally I have now recieved a last response from Barnito that he was not on his computer after I responded to his mass messages which may well be true or not be true. I've known Barnito for almost 2 years, I honestly don't think it was his fault since he did not code it, Snail did. I have no comment towards Snail since honestly I don't know what to say anymore towards him. I felt the comments toward IJTF_Cinder was not polite and turned me down even more. I have suspended people's accounts when they insult other admins or flame at all. There is not much more I can say which further made my conclusion and Magnis's.

 

But I can only see and say so much, I am not a god you know.

 

- GameCop

[Keith]

GameCop the same happened to me, I was presented with the emulator and at the time felt it was alright to support it. The only problem I had with it at the time was that it included a bios in the download. Then as I was presented with more information I started to see it differently. Once it was released as Cassini a lot of sites were confused and posting it as a "new" open source Saturn emulator. So I made the general warning post which led to the rest.

 

So I understand where you are coming from GameCop.

Edited July 15, 2004 by Keith

[[RR]Rommaster]

what pisses me off is a bunch of fanboys TRY to kill something on the grounds of morrality, but they are hypocrits, because not ONE of them is innocent..... EVERYONE has roms they HAVE NO RIGHT TO.... this is no diferent... at all...

 

Barnito

Edited July 15, 2004 by [RR]Rommaster

[Keith]

This is not about the use of Cassini.. the use of ROMS.. or the use of anything illegal. This has been stated so many times it is getting repetitive.

 

This debate is about the legal and moral side of taking a project and hacking it to make it your own when you don't have the right. It is also about protecting the emulation scene, the developers, and our fellow sites from these types of projects.

 

Past projects have been viewed the same way. Originally GiriGiri hack was not covered by emulation sites because of legal reasons. Emurayden is not covered which is a CVGS hack. Same goes for other hacks that have come along such as ePSXiPC which was nothing more then a hacked ePSXe, and the Veritas SPU plugin which was a hack of the PSX SPU Plugin Eternal SPU. I am sure there is many more and all of these are not supported by the emulation community.

 

In the end it all comes down the integrity of the Emulation Scene and how sites want to be perceived. EmuFanatics and myself are connected with many emulation developers who I consider good friends who have supported our site and I feel supporting a hacked project is a slap in their face.

 

Also Cassini is not supported by any known developers.. which should be the thing that would concern me from a technical and development standpoint.

 

Also are we ever going to get some technical answers to what changes have been done since Snail started working on the already hacked GiriGiri? Or answers to the legal counterpoints I posted in the first post of this thread?

Edited July 15, 2004 by Keith

[mikeshoup]

This is completely ridiculous.

 

Barnito: To say that everyone has roms, everyone pirtates stuff, is wrong. You can't assume everyone has roms. I dare u to look at my hard drive. I'll even give u a complete listing of all the directories if you want. I don't have roms anymore. I have no need for them. Any roms I still have saved somewhere I either dumped myself (which is legal), or they are public domain.

 

Second, Barnito, there is something wrong with coming out and accusing everyone of being hypocrites.

 

Third, this is a lot different then having roms on your computer. This is snail modifying someone else's work, and pawning it off for his own benefit. Nothing goes back to the original developers, and snail has no license to do so.

 

Unless Sega publicly announces some how that the copyrights are dissolved, and that this emulator is now public domain (or they transfer the copyright to someone else), then this emulator is completely illegal. According to copyright laws, u can modify a copyrighted material for your own use, but distribution is illegal.

[[RR]Rommaster]

Listen... I don't have to justify myself to you are anyone else. As for the roms, you HAD them before then you are a hypocrit, you broke the law period. Don't lecture me or the rest of us. When Sega asks us to stop then we will, untill then nothing changes, other than new forums somewhere else... Thanks BTW Keith.. I do appriciate that one. Turning my own network against me....

 

Much appriciated

 

BTW it is only if you make a profit off someone elses work.... not just distruibuting it free of charge..... Also if you LOOKED at the site we DID tell the truth the whole time... everything about GIRIGIRI is there and has been there from day 1. We took no credit for their work, only ours. and yes Snail does know how to modify assembly code, it is possible. as for this arguement, we will be #1 on google for saturn emulator searches in a few weeks, and have support of sites that aren't going to be swayed by you hypocritical fuc.kers.

 

Peace Out...

Barnito

Edited July 15, 2004 by [RR]Rommaster

[Keith]

It is pretty sad that you believe I turned your own network against you. Last I checked I wasn't the one doing the illegal things that people are complaining about.

 

The more information that gets out the more people are seeing the full picture. What GameCop did, he did on his own. If GameCop and his team feel it needs to be removed then that was their decision.

 

You guys can keep doing it for as long as you want, that doesn't really matter. I wouldn't expect much support from the development and emulation site scene though. I am sure there will still be many users who will support the project because it does work very well. The original GiriGiri team did a wonderful job creating it. There is no mistake there.

 

I guess we could use your excuse.. if the Cassini team ignores the questions being asked regarding the technical side and the legal side.. then we can assume we are right.

 

Also distribution of illegal material free or for money is still against the law. Your statement is naive and pretty ignorant.

Edited July 15, 2004 by Keith

[Prican25]

Barnito

its over man. you tried to fool us into believing a legit emulator when it was nothing more then a illegal hack job that you and your butt buddy have no proof that you had the right to work on from get go.

 

you did to yourself, plain and simple

[Wizard]

Hmm.

 

We all have morals, their all just different from everyone elses.

[thanatozz]

Ok so you people are flocking around with Cassini, is that it? Some progress is finally made in emulating Saturn and people already kick it right back into the ground. You hate Sega? You hate Saturn, is that what this is about? Or are you going to wait for that useless Satourne to finally become user friendly? If you knew what was good for the Emulation scene you would just let them do their work. Are you not supporting SupraHLE? It's also a reworked version of an existing emu... noone seems to care. Then why not support this one? It is abandonware and if someone wants to use it to make saturn emulation better, let them have a go at it.