US Doctors were involved in torture at Abu Grahib

[random guy]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to ask gryph some questions about this development. Had you heard about the whole doctors-involved in torture thing before I made my thread, and as a doctor, what do you think about it? Also, have you taken the hippocratic oath yet?

[zhugeliang]

gad dam you cant ever shut your trap can you? all that crap you said goes for you too, if you feel so strongly about your accusations move your ass on over to iraq and save some lives then. stop talking about it and be about it. get your ass out there and save some homeless people and give all your clothes away. go sign up to adopt a kid over there for 39 cents a month so you can feel good about yourself, so you can wake up in the morning, tug your little dick and squirt on your little sisters panties without having to worry about whats going on on the other side of the planet.... because YOU are the only one that can save them. when you sleep at night you toss and turn thinking about what its like over in iraq but if you had the oppurtunity to go over there I bet you wouldn't. you act as if you worry enuff about whats going on over there something is gonna change. all this bullshit you put here dont do a dam thing. you arent special because you have some kind of idealistic view on how crap should be. learn to respect others opinions, maybe then you wouldn't get your crap pushed in every day by high school bullies

[Wizard]

YOu know, anyone whos ever went against random_guy has never won...

[zhugeliang]

okay thats cool im not trying to debate with him cuz i dont really have the time to sit at my desk and think of COOL things I can say to be cute. It's not in me to be a snot nosed prick who gets off on talking about crap I dont know about.

[random guy]

gad dam you cant ever shut your trap can you? all that crap you said goes for you too, if you feel so strongly about your accusations move your ass on over to iraq and save some lives then. stop talking about it and be about it. get your ass out there and save some homeless people and give all your clothes away. go sign up to adopt a kid over there for 39 cents a month so you can feel good about yourself, so you can wake up in the morning, tug your little dick and squirt on your little sisters panties without having to worry about whats going on on the other side of the planet.... because YOU are the only one that can save them. when you sleep at night you toss and turn thinking about what its like over in iraq but if you had the oppurtunity to go over there I bet you wouldn't. you act as if you worry enuff about whats going on over there something is gonna change. all this bullshit you put here dont do a dam thing.    you arent special because you have some kind of idealistic view on how crap should be. learn to respect others opinions, maybe then you wouldn't get your crap pushed in every day by high school bullies

I think it is absolutely disgusting that an American could be saying that to me. It's your countrymen who are abusing people in Iraq (actually some of us are over there too so maybe we're partially to blame as well) but the fact of the matter is, its the US army who is providing the impetus for torture, and it's the US Government who is the reason they're all over there in the first place. Therefore the best thing to do (which is something I can't do as I am not there) is to kick up a fuss in the US. I've been to plenty of protests over the Iraq war over here - I've marched to Parliament House, etc.. etc... but strangely enough, Bush doesn't seem to care what Australian citizens think about the whole thing. But I'd imagine he'd sing a different tune if protesters arrived at his front lawn.

But no, it's not because of people like me that these attrocities are still ongoing (and I am powerless to stop them), no it is because of people like YOU. People who will just sit back and allow the American ideal to be dragged through the mud...people who don't care when they learn that American doctors are involved in torture processes that would have been more at home during the Holocaust!

Who, I ask, is more pathetic here, me, who "won't stop whining" about this, or you, who doesn't give a damn? This is a holocaust-type situation and because you're not a jew (or in this case an arab) you don't give a crap about it! And what's more you can't comprehend why I find that disgusting! In fact you insult me when I speak out about it! I find that almost incomprehensible.

[zhugeliang]

You dont understand what Im saying and I dont understand what you are saying and the world is about to collide with the sun and the sky is falling...... America is evil and bla bla bla. You think our troops wanna be over there right now? There are soldiers over there dying over this crap and when they hear about lil sissies crying back home about how they shouldnt be torturing people you lower the morale of the troops. Talk all that crap about how those prisoners have families and crap. Dont our troops have families or are they just a bunch of robots out there? When they die do you dont post about them. About korean hostages in Iraq or or soldiers getting decimated by rocket propelled grenades. That kind of stuff doesn't matter to you because what?

You live (as do most of us) in a first-world country full of oppportunity, hope, and clean drinking water

Please man, save that crock of bull for someone who cant think for themselves. What because we got more then what they do its our faults? If I work my ass off for years and acquire higher living standards its okay if i get robbed by a broke homeless dude? It doesnt matter if he kills the maid and the fish while hes robbing my house right? flock its not our fault they dont have what we have. All the crap we got over here muh flockas died for. We had many great leaders that died for what we have. America did what she had to do to get us to where we are now. Cant blame America cuz these other countries dont have what we have. They can have it to if they worked for it, but all they had so far is some sick flocks who want to take over the world. Save that Captain Planet I wanna save the world crap for when youre crying to your diary.

[random guy]

You dont understand what Im saying and I dont understand what you are saying and the world is about to collide with the sun and the sky is falling......  America is evil and bla bla bla. You think our troops wanna be over there right now? There are soldiers over there dying over this crap and when they hear about lil sissies crying back home about how they shouldnt be torturing people you lower the morale of the troops. Talk all that crap about how those prisoners have families and crap. Dont our troops have families or are they just a bunch of robots out there? When they die do you dont post about them. About korean hostages in Iraq or or soldiers getting decimated by rocket propelled grenades. That kind of stuff doesn't matter to you because what?

You live (as do most of us) in a first-world country full of oppportunity, hope, and clean drinking water

Please man, save that crock of bull for someone who cant think for themselves. What because we got more then what they do its our faults? If I work my ass off for years and acquire higher living standards its okay if i get robbed by a broke homeless dude? It doesnt matter if he kills the maid and the fish while hes robbing my house right? flock its not our fault they dont have what we have. All the crap we got over here muh flockas died for. We had many great leaders that died for what we have. America did what she had to do to get us to where we are now. Cant blame America cuz these other countries dont have what we have. They can have it to if they worked for it, but all they had so far is some sick flocks who want to take over the world. Save that Captain Planet I wanna save the world crap for when youre crying to your diary.

Of course US troops don't want to be over there! They've been sent to fight an unjust war, and by now almost as many, if not more, US soldiers have been killed over there than during the actual war! The soldiers have every right to be pissed off, and those that don't torture innocent people have my sympathies. But in no way does that forgive these torturings, and the other flocked up business that is going on. This war is best paralleled with the Vietnam war - that too was an unjust and practically unwinnable war. Soldier's lives were ruined over that war. And yet some US soldiers during Vietnam would rape vietnamese commoners - and in more than one example entire civillian villages were wiped out by GIs. That is inexcusable no matter what happened over there. Now in Iraq some US soldiers still loot from and abuse Iraqi civilians, and those in Saddam's former army - which are soldiers just like the US soldiers, who no doubt signed up for exactly the same reason - are being tortured to death, and the Army is taking great strides to cover it up. That is inexcusable! Wake up to yourself - this is a terrible breach of human rights, and by implicitly accepting it, you're sending the message that it's okay to do that! Well what if the opposite had happened - what if Hussein had invaded the US, was now occupying the country, and was torturing random Americans. What would you think about that now, huh? I don't think you would be too happy about it, so what the hell is the difference?

 

Also you said, "flock it, it's not our fault if they don't have what we had"

 

Hello?!? Yes it flocking is, considering the fact that thanks to the US invasion of Iraq they have now lost their main economic assets (the oil), the majority of their national arts (have been looted), most of the buildings are in tatters, and there still isn't clean drinking water in the entire place! Furthermore, they've lost what Bush seems to love so much, they're very freedom! I would say, therefore, that it very much IS the US governments/army's fault that they don't have what you have, don't you think?

Edited August 25, 2004 by random guy

[Wizard]

A few simple words.

 

"Hail To The Thief."

Edited August 25, 2004 by K`dash

[zhugeliang]

Wow you really know how to contradict yourself everytime you post a reply. Okay now its all our faults that they couldnt do a dam thing for themselves when they were being over run by a modern day warlord. Okay were flocking up their oil industry but what the flock have they been doing with it for the past how many so years. Not a dam thing, Saddam was building forty palaces all over his country while his people were dying. You say now because of the US in Iraq that they have lost thier freedom? Im sorry but when the hell did they have their freedom to begin with? You talk as if Saddam was a great leader. Do you condone what he did while sitting at his throne? I rather get stabbed by a stranger then shot by my father. Im not saying that torture is right so stop trying to misquote me. It would seem that you are educated to a degree so read the words carefully and stop trying to release some agression on me cuz I stand up to your I want my way crap. Just because you watched Farenheit 9/11 dont make you a scholar in whats going on over there. You turned a simple statement into a 5 page thread about how crap should be but isnt going to be. Why? Cuz you think the more posts you put on this board will establish you as a authority figure? Got more then just a little making up to do in terms of reality eh? Tired of getting shoved around in real life so you sit on the comp and argue about something you saw on the web? Take it easy man and breathe. Don't get so worked up, why do you care what I think? You dont, you just feel bigger when you think someone is backing down from you. This can turn into a 500 post thread about you and your ideals but I stand where I stand. flock TERRORISTS!!! LIFE"S A biatch!!! GET OVER IT!!!!

Edited August 25, 2004 by zhugeliang

[random guy]

Wow you really know how to contradict yourself everytime you post a reply. Okay now its all our faults that they couldnt do a dam thing for themselves when they were being over run by a modern day warlord. Okay were flocking up their oil industry but what the flock have they been doing with it for the past how many so years. Not a dam thing, Saddam was building forty palaces all over his country while his people were dying. You say now because of the US in Iraq that they have lost thier freedom? Im sorry but when the hell did they have their freedom to begin with? You talk as if Saddam was a great leader. Do you condone what he did while sitting at his throne? I rather get stabbed by a stranger then shot by my father. Im not saying that torture is right so stop trying to misquote me. It would seem that you are educated to a degree so read the words carefully and stop trying to release some agression on me cuz I stand up to your I want my way crap.  Just because you watched Farenheit 9/11 dont make you a scholar in whats going on over there. You turned a simple statement into a 5 page thread about how crap should be but isnt going to be. Why? Cuz you think the more posts you put on this board will establish you as a authority figure? Got more then just a little making up to do in terms of reality eh? Tired of getting shoved around in real life so you sit on the comp and argue about something you saw on the web? Take it easy man and breathe. Don't get so worked up, why do you care what I think? You dont, you just feel bigger when you think someone is backing down from you. This can turn into a 500 post thread about you and your ideals but I stand where I stand. flock TERRORISTS!!! LIFE"S  A biatch!!! GET OVER IT!!!!

NO you moron, all of the Iraq being in ruins stuff that I mentioned was a DIRECT RESULT OF THE WAR! It was DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF THE INVASION OF THEIR COUNTRY BY FOREIGN OPPRESSORS (Ie you) Saddam Hussein was just a leader, like any other leader. He wasn't even as bad as Bush in many respects. Iraq was doing fine until the first Gulf war, and their economy was slowly flocked by sanctions and god-knows what else (Again the US's fault). I cannot believe you are trying to argue that Iraqis are better off now that the invasion has happened, because the facts just do not support you there. People are getting tortured (and it is irrelevent how many people Saddam tortured, because torture is still happening, and if anything it is now worse, so no improvement there). BECAUSE OF THIS WAR the country is in economic AND literal ruins. I'll say it again. As a direct result of this invasion, Iraq is now far, far, far worse off than it ever was under Saddam, meanwhile US businessmen continue to exploit the suffering of Iraqis for their own personal gain.

And I don't care how many times you say, "flock terrorists", as it is not terrorists who are being tortured in Iraq, it is innocent victims of an unjust foreign oppression.

[Wizard]

The U.S. isn't the authority figure in the world. It's the U.N. You know, the UNITED NATIONS. Simple enough that this isn't a war, it's a genocide. Sure, but do you have the hard proof Saddam used checmicals on HIS own people? No, what they show on these TV networks is what they want you to see. I'm not saying Saddam is a good guy, but you need the proof, from someone realible, BBC, Routers, not CNN or FOX NEWS. Nothing in this world is even remotely close to "freedom" anymore. Everything is governed harshly now.

 

People take other's opinions highly within a discussion such as this. A political showdown. Because this truely shows your innerads on where you stand in the a wing's motive. It's pretty clear what 9/11 is, a personal attack on Bush, but what you see there, the soliders, the people, it's all true. Those who do not pick arms, cower, those who have arms and kill or torture their realitives(albite, are the exact ones who did not get arms in the first place) retaliate. It's a never ending cycle. This is genocide. A massive genocide, on both sides of the map.