US Doctors were involved in torture at Abu Grahib

[random guy]

"Without America, their would be no pollution."

Yeah, and without Spain, America would never have been discovered, so go biatch at them for a while.

 

I'm sick and tired of people trying to make ME feel guilty and telling ME I'm responsible for what some flocked up nutjob tens of thousands of miles away did just because I'm an American.

 

"Yeah, yeah, bash America. Everyone is doing it, it's the latest craze. Nevermind our own faults and follies, we'll just blame the US." Hypocrits, all of you. Get off your moral high horses. Canadians and Australians have commited and still commit their own fair share of atrocities around the world.

 

Canadians prolonged a war in Sudan to get oil for THEMSELVES. That's right! Canadians use oil too!! =O! I didn't see you guys ranting about that.

 

Yeah, some twisted freak tortured somone. It's not the first time, it's not the worst time, and God knows it won't be the last time. Just because he was an American doesn't mean all Americans hold the same ideals as he did.

 

In fact, the tortures commited at those prisons make me sick, as an American it rubs against every fiber of my being, especially when we were supposed to be helping those people. I hope the ones responcible are punished for what they did, and anyone with any moral center can tell you it was wrong. It's against the laws, both internationally and within the US. Just because it happened doesn't mean I'm at fault, or Bush is at fault, it means someone somewhere did something they shouldn't have done. It happens all the time, all over the world, in all sorts of governments and societies. It's why we have laws.

 

Want an explanation you say? If Steve Irwin started feeding innocent people to crocodiles, would YOU owe ME an explanation?

Its your countrymen who are doing it, though. You are making things worse if you don't speak out about it, especially if you are an American. What you are referring to is when I said how can people be doing this and the majority of US citizens don't seem to care about it. They should be disgusted, they should speak out about it, or else they are implicitly accepting things. I am well aware that there is some shady stuff in Australian history, and as an Australian I am ashamed about it. You should be ashamed about this, because it's Americans doing this, and they've been brought up in America, and they think its okay to torture the crap out of foreigners. There is something VERY wrong about that.

[L.S.D]

Hmm....i am lazy to browse through all the 7 pages

but I tot we been here?

 

We must beware of Mr Gryph

Edited August 25, 2004 by L.S.D

[Jjangthekid]

i dont get america..first when they came here, it was bc of religious freedom and all that crap but than later on they found out that on this new found land there are other people living on this land..native americans.. america grew and asked the n.a to move..and they kept on moving them.. and eventually forced them to live on indian reservations,preservations something liek that..and so i ask what is america..? what is being american?? majority of the things are here on america were brought from other countries...no?

[Wizard]

"Without America, their would be no pollution."

Yeah, and without Spain, America would never have been discovered, so go biatch at them for a while.

 

I'm sick and tired of people trying to make ME feel guilty and telling ME I'm responsible for what some flocked up nutjob tens of thousands of miles away did just because I'm an American.

 

"Yeah, yeah, bash America. Everyone is doing it, it's the latest craze. Nevermind our own faults and follies, we'll just blame the US." Hypocrits, all of you. Get off your moral high horses. Canadians and Australians have commited and still commit their own fair share of atrocities around the world.

 

Canadians prolonged a war in Sudan to get oil for THEMSELVES. That's right! Canadians use oil too!! =O! I didn't see you guys ranting about that.

 

Yeah, some twisted freak tortured somone. It's not the first time, it's not the worst time, and God knows it won't be the last time. Just because he was an American doesn't mean all Americans hold the same ideals as he did.

 

In fact, the tortures commited at those prisons make me sick, as an American it rubs against every fiber of my being, especially when we were supposed to be helping those people. I hope the ones responcible are punished for what they did, and anyone with any moral center can tell you it was wrong. It's against the laws, both internationally and within the US. Just because it happened doesn't mean I'm at fault, or Bush is at fault, it means someone somewhere did something they shouldn't have done. It happens all the time, all over the world, in all sorts of governments and societies. It's why we have laws.

 

Want an explanation you say? If Steve Irwin started feeding innocent people to crocodiles, would YOU owe ME an explanation?

The bashing is even aimed towards the people. Your military's actions speaks for themselves, and you, the people, aren't even doing a damn to stop it(you are, but out of how many?). Let's face it, no change will happen if no one speaks out. It could take one small voice or a friking riot, do something about it.

Edited August 25, 2004 by K`dash

[Gryph]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to ask gryph some questions about this development. Had you heard about the whole doctors-involved in torture thing before I made my thread, and as a doctor, what do you think about it? Also, have you taken the hippocratic oath yet?

I saw it in the news the day before you posted it. I think it's absolutely disgraceful and goes against everything the Hippocratic Oath stands for, which I have not taken and will not take for another 6-7 years (I have to finish undergrad then 4 years of med school. The school system between USA and AUS are really different.) I'm not a doctor yet, but I'm on the right path. Anyway, those doctors are a disgrace to the profession and to this country and if there is real justice they will have their license to practice taken away and be thrown in jail. Of course, since they are military doctors they also must follow the chain of command. If they were given orders from above to do such things, then as an officer they are obligated to do it, so that's where the conflict occurs in the mind of the doctor. Should they go ahead and follow orders and hope that none of what they are doing leaks out (which has so they got owned) or disobey orders from a commanding officer and get court martialed for it? I'd go for the court martial because I don't think the Armed Forces have the authority to take away my license, only the AMA does, and I am not going to torture anyone if I'm not in the mood to. Of course, this is no laughing matter so I shouldn't be joking about such things.

 

I'll be back to reply to more stuff when I gots the time.

[ffynnon]

I'll admit I skimmed most of this thread. I've seen it all before...

 

Something I hadn't seen though, was this article at the NY Times:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/magazine/22IDEA.html

 

Describes why people on the left and right can't fathom why the other thinks the way they do. Interesting hypothosis regarding brain activity.

 

Liberals tend to have more activity in a particular part of the brain--the part responsible for empathy and fear.

 

A wise friend of mine with an admirable amount of life experience broke it down for me like this. "There are really only two types of people in this world. People who want to make the world a better place, and the f*ck you crowd."

 

The longer I live on this earth, I think he's right.

[Wizard]

That's the one.

[Skythe]

Bombs are awesome.

[AntiWinner22]

All I am going to say, though it may be wrong to most of you, is that, while death is bad and evil is bad, it is inevitable. I will just let Malthus' theory keep working. As pissed as I am, or as happy as I am, it will keep working. Let us just accept that.

 

Anon.

Edited August 26, 2004 by AntiWinner22

[Skythe]

 

I CAN SEE IT NOW!!!!!

[OverlordMondo]

To G: What's the Hippocritical Oath?

 

To Skythe: Bombs DO rule.

 

On Topic: When we invaded the Taliban or whoever, I didn't care. Saddams whatever seemed a little less meaningful. We never even found proof about the nuclear weapons! I have literally seen reports of finding nukes in the National Enquirer, just to prove a point. I've also seen evidence of us finding a "Giant Slingshot". Which is apparently what Bush wanted to find the whole time!