Evolution vs. Creation

[random guy]

many people belive in Christianity because they've seen it with their own two eyes on how God works in their life..

 

im not dissing you or anything but hell there are so many more intellectual peole out in this world..

 

you think whenever a person converts to christianity..their life is perfect?/ hell no..its more trouble for them because being a christian is different..people look down on christians.... they struggle even more being a christian.

I never witness a thing while I was/am/is/hypocrite~ christian. But in the worse of times you'll see those non-believers say "Help me God" blah blah blah.

 

Yes, the bible HAS been re-written over 100 times since years after Christ. The James King version, the New Catholic Church (I've seen it!) and a bunch of other times. The New Testement was written 100 years after Christ's death/acension/whatever. But, how could we tell he was even real? These stories could be of many different people but combined under the infulence of writing.

Actually, even most atheistic historians (interested in that era) believe that Jesus Christ existed (whether or not he was the Son of God). Of course, by the available evidence he probably would have probably been of Middle Eastern descent, and thus a lot more brown in skin-tone than he is depicted in Christianity.

[Jjangthekid]

argh..see how hard it is to be a christian..?? im all alone in this thread..with Mr.Gryph attacking me..

[taratata]

Actually they do and he's a prophet in their religion. They just don't think he's the son of God.

Muslims, for all intents and purposes, worship the same god too (Jesus Christ is a prophet in the Muslim religion too). You really mean to tell me that you believe that God would keep people who've been devoutly worshiping him all their lives just because they disagree about the geneology of one man?

yea..if they dont believei in Jesus Christ than they go to hell..to say it nicely..

 

Jesus Christ = God..not just a prophet.

Bah. Some think the same about you. You don't believe in ***insert prophet, god or whatever here*** and don't follow his laws = you go to hell (or whatever nasty place).

haha..true..owell i guess ill go to hell then.in terms of that person's view..

Now why would I believe you rather than that other guy? If I wanted to go to paradise, I'd have to choose. There is a major incompatibility there.

[Wizard]

argh..see how hard it is to be a christian..?? im all alone in this thread..with Mr.Gryph attacking me..

He's debating!

 

But really dude. I'm trying to avoid teh "attcks" and teh "flamez" before you or I or anyone else goes script kiddie.

[Gryph]

Science is a process of learning, it keeps changing. No one knows everything  which is why there are so many hypothesis and so many experiments done. How do you learn new things without exploring new ideas?

 

Also, theories are rarely proven wrong so I don't know where you got that from.

yea so how reliable is science? if it keeps on changing? the Bible doesnt change,,, I believe the first 5 books were wriiten by Moses and it never changed.. though the scholars translated the Bible into many different languages..the meaning behind the Bible never changed.

 

and for the theory..maybe i heard that wrong so I wont say more about that..but science gets disproven. no?..

Science is very reliable BECAUSE it changes. It keeps getting better all the time. How do you like the computer you're typing on? How do you like air conditioning? How do you like all these new medicines that keep you healthy? How do you like the fact that when you get old and your dick gets limp you can take a magic pill and then have a boner and flock a 16 year old prostitute? Science is a marvelous thing. In the past 100 years we have had more benefits from science than centuries of religion.

 

The bible is real...but is it based on facts? Probably not.

 

And you mentioned about the world being flat. Well that was before SCIENCE proved it wrong. People also believed (because religion pushed it) that the Earth was the center of the universe. The same people that believe they are special creatures because God made them after His image are the same people that thought our planet was the center of the universe because we are just so goddamn special. Well guess what, that was proven wrong too and the Church didn't like it at all because it didn't make humans seem as special.

 

When I get home I'll post some proof of evolution that I have learned in the first 3 weeks of Comparative phyisiology and I'll even try to scan some pictures.

[taratata]

argh..see how hard it is to be a christian..?? im all alone in this thread..with Mr.Gryph attacking me..

Oh, please. Don't tell us you're a martyr, because all we are doing is a debate. Instead of whining, please try to say intelligent things about all the arguments we have given you and that you haven't given an answer to.

[random guy]

No one's been attacking anyone (I think) we're just debating.

[Gryph]

I like this conversation to be right here but when I get home I might have time to discuss some of this on AIM. But over here more people can get in on the action and if it's here more people can learn new things that they didn't know before. Might as well educate more than one person while I'm at it. And Kanti, how's the project going? Getting anything useful from our blathering?

 

And I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to comprehend the direction from where you are coming from...especially since you took AP Bio.

Edited September 10, 2004 by GryphonKlaw

[STUFF]

Wow, I can't believe I totally missed out on this topic, for it is one I love to debate about.

 

I will admit, I'm at work and was unable to read all the posts. So I will just give my view.

 

Creation has much better scientific proof to support it. Scientific proof you ask? Yup Scientific proof. When you hear about the great flood it really makes a lot more sense than something happening millions of years ago. Things like Petrified boots prove that petrification doesn't take thousands of years.

 

Even carbon dating proves that the earth is not even 35 thousand years old because earth still hasn't reached equilibrium. We see fosils of animals that were still flying. Surely these didn't fly for thousands of years until slowly they got petrified. And even if they had just laid in the sand for thousands of years, wouldn't some other animal come and eat it?

 

Evolution:

 

There are 6 kinds of evolution.

 

1- Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang

 

2- Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.

 

3- Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.

 

4- Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.

 

5- Macroevolution Origin of major kinds.

 

6- Microevolution Variations within kinds.

 

There is proof to only one of these. That would be number 6. Microevolution. Yes, we have seen Dogs give different dogs. So that one can be proven. The rest can not. The rest are just beliefs. A cat has never come out of a Dog, a monkey has never come out of a elephant. A man has never ccome out of a Monkey.

 

Yes, I know, Men and monkey look a lot alike, but there is no actual proof of a man coming out of a monkey. Scientists will show you all these bones they've found to "prove" their theories but really it isn't proof. We have plenty of people now that come out deformed, they have different bones. And most of the time they make up most of the bones. We all remember the Neanderthal man. Made a full skeleton based on a tooth which later was proven to be a pigs tooth.

 

No one has ever seen space be created. They made up the big bang theory. A theory where nothing blows up and makes up everything (yea, that's easier to believe than God). However there were problems with that theory for not all the planets rotate the same way. So they decided that a huge meteor hit this planet and that's why it rotetes differently. Aha. sure.

 

No one has ever seen life come out of something dead. There is no proof of that. IT has never happened. But they believe it is what happened. It rained for thousands of years on rocks and these microscopic beigns showed up. yea.

 

So, on the contrary to what I read in the begining pages of this debate, it actually seems like Creation has better proof than Evolution. All those fossils prove a great flood much more than evolution.

 

This brings me to my last point. Evolution is nothing but a religion. As you can see, it is all based on beliefs and not on facts. And it was a religion to make people feel ok about slavery.

 

This is why Darwin decided to renew Evolution, because it was needed at his time. People needed to feel that they were greater than their slaves. So he wrote is famous book "The Origin of Species". Where he would let people know that some of use are more evolved than others. Therefore some of us are Better than others. Therefore it is ok to have slaves because they are under the owner, they are less evolved.

 

Did you know they used to keep Australian Natives in Zoos because they were though of as being less evolved creatures instead of humans?

 

Evolution was also the reason why Hitler did what he did. He believed all the people he killed were less than him. So it was ok.

 

But, again, evolution is nothing but at religious belief, and if you think you have actual scientific proof of evolution, then please by all means go here and you will win $250,000 dollars. Yea, Dr. Hovind has been offering this money since 1990 and no one has been able to give him the scientific proof yet. So one of you might get lucky.

[random guy]

Wow, I can't believe I totally missed out on this topic, for it is one I love to debate about. 

 

I will admit, I'm at work and was unable to read all the posts.  So I will just give my view. 

 

Creation has much better scientific proof to support it.  Scientific proof you ask?  Yup Scientific proof.  When you hear about the great flood it really makes a lot more sense than something happening millions of years ago.  Things like Petrified boots prove that petrification doesn't take thousands of years. 

 

Even carbon dating proves that the earth is not even 35 thousand years old because earth still hasn't reached equilibrium.  We see fosils of animals that were still flying.  Surely these didn't fly for thousands of years until slowly they got petrified.  And even if they had just laid in the sand for thousands of years, wouldn't some other animal come and eat it?

 

Evolution: 

 

There are 6 kinds of evolution. 

 

1- Cosmic evolution- the origin of time, space and matter. Big Bang

 

2- Chemical evolution- the origin of higher elements from hydrogen.

 

3- Stellar and planetary evolution- Origin of stars and planets.

 

4- Organic evolution- Origin of life from inanimate matter.

 

5- Macroevolution Origin of major kinds.

 

6- Microevolution Variations within kinds.

 

There is proof to only one of these.  That would be number 6.  Microevolution.  Yes, we have seen Dogs give different dogs.  So that one can be proven.  The rest can not.  The rest are just beliefs.  A cat has never come out of a Dog, a monkey has never come out of a elephant.  A man has never ccome out of a Monkey. 

 

Yes, I know, Men and monkey look a lot alike, but there is no actual proof of a man coming out of a monkey.  Scientists will show you all these bones they've found to "prove" their theories but really it isn't proof.  We have plenty of people now that come out deformed, they have different bones.  And most of the time they make up most of the bones.  We all remember the Neanderthal man.  Made a full skeleton based on a tooth which later was proven to be a pigs tooth. 

 

No one has ever seen space be created.  They made up the big bang theory.  A theory where nothing blows up and makes up everything (yea, that's easier to believe than God).  However there were problems with that theory for not all the planets rotate the same way.  So they decided that a huge meteor hit this planet and that's why it rotetes differently.  Aha. sure. 

 

No one has ever seen life come out of something dead.  There is no proof of that.  IT has never happened.  But they believe it is what happened.  It rained for thousands of years on rocks and these microscopic beigns showed up.  yea. 

 

So, on the contrary to what I read in the begining pages of this debate, it actually seems like Creation has better proof than Evolution.  All those fossils prove a great flood much more than evolution. 

 

This brings me to my last point.  Evolution is nothing but a religion.  As you can see, it is all based on beliefs and not on facts.  And it was a religion to make people feel ok about slavery. 

 

This is why Darwin decided to renew Evolution, because it was needed at his time.  People needed to feel that they were greater than their slaves.  So he wrote is famous book "The Origin of Species".  Where he would let people know that some of use are more evolved than others.  Therefore some of us are Better than others.  Therefore it is ok to have slaves because they are under the owner, they are less evolved. 

 

Did you know they used to keep Australian Natives in Zoos because they were though of as being less evolved creatures instead of humans? 

 

Evolution was also the reason why Hitler did what he did.  He believed all the people he killed were less than him.  So it was ok. 

 

But, again, evolution is nothing but at religious belief, and if you think you have actual scientific proof of evolution, then please by all means go  here and you will win $250,000 dollars.  Yea, Dr. Hovind has been offering this money since 1990 and no one has been able to give him the scientific proof yet.  So one of you might get lucky.

If you're interested in that kind of thing you should read "the mismeasure of man". It's about ways in which scientific methods were used to "prove" the genetic superiority of whites. I found it fascinating - for instance, there was this physician called Charles Morton who collected all the skulls he could get his hands on so he could measure them by pouring gun-shot into their craniums (the idea being that white people, being superior, would have higher capacity skulls than any other race ). His results did find that but his workings out were fallacious at best, and although he published all his data, so it would be clear to anyone who would look that these results weren't scientifically tenable, it was held to be "fact" for another hundred years or so.

That being said, I disagree with you on many of your views - petrified animals are rare because the state of petrification would have required a body in tact falling into tar (or something or other). Plus our whole planet is built on layers of previous generations - and the layers provide a good indication of timeline - and the dinosaurs are buried pretty darn deep under the earth.

A meteor hitting earth causing it to spin a different way does sound like a cooky idea, but the fact that planets do swing different ways does not disprove (or prove) the big bang theory.

Finally, if humans had been round since the planet's inception, why is there no indication of dinosaurs throughout our archeological history? If humans and dinosaurs were round at the same time, you'd think dinosaurs would be pretty hard to miss!

[Jjangthekid]

argh..see how hard it is to be a christian..?? im all alone in this thread..with Mr.Gryph attacking me..

Oh, please. Don't tell us you're a martyr, because all we are doing is a debate. Instead of whining, please try to say intelligent things about all the arguments we have given you and that you haven't given an answer to.

whining?/haha ok.... w.e and i stood my point on everything..and what are the things that i haven't answered to??..

 

Science is very reliable BECAUSE it changes. It keeps getting better all the time. How do you like the computer you're typing on? How do you like air conditioning? How do you like all these new medicines that keep you healthy? How do you like the fact that when you get old and your dick gets limp you can take a magic pill and then have a boner and flock a 16 year old prostitute? Science is a marvelous thing. In the past 100 years we have had more benefits from science than centuries of religion.

 

The bible is real...but is it based on facts? Probably not.

 

And you mentioned about the world being flat. Well that was before SCIENCE proved it wrong. People also believed (because religion pushed it) that the Earth was the center of the universe. The same people that believe they are special creatures because God made them after His image are the same people that thought our planet was the center of the universe because we are just so goddamn special. Well guess what, that was proven wrong too and the Church didn't like it at all because it didn't make humans seem as special.

 

science has benefited us lot more than religion??.. hahah.. you sure about that??.

how bout when scientists made the 1st atomic bomb..they said that it would end all wars..did it? noo.. other countries made atomic bomb and now we're at the peak of destorying each other.. and old people getting boners?.. how is that a good thing for the communitY?.? old people should get limp.. why the hellw ould you want them to get a boner to fuk a 16 year old?.. science is going to destroy human beings..never seen the movie irobot? terminator?..sure its all science ficition but it could be so true.. recently i saw a video of sony's latest robot..they dance tomusic and tthey learn too..illl try to find that video.. also..ac..and computer?.. you think they are a great invention?.. computer makes us lazy... and ac isn't good for our body.. sciene isnn't ALL that great.. sure some of it is good..but majority of it is goign to screw the human kind..

Edited September 10, 2004 by Jjangthekid