An open challenge for coders

[Swithin]

Hey all.

 

I'm still all antsy about this subject, and I've written El Semi twice (spread over a couple of years) to no reply. Basically, I feel Nebula is the premiere neo-emulator for the following reasons: Neo-CD support, spot-on emulation, higher maximum-resolution than Kawaks, and finally HQ2X filtering. Yes, Kawaks and FBA do some things better than good old Neb, but neither do neo-cd and Kawaks doesn't do HQ2X (I don't know from personal experience, but I'm guessing FBA can.)

 

Here's the problem: Nebula doesn't do frame-blend properly. It has the "smart" frame-blend, supposedly meant to handle blinking transparencies, but this just causes horrendous tearing around the feet on character-shadows (and in some situations, makes some sprites have holes as if they were shot by the inviso-shotgun, such as Kagami in LB2, not to mention leaving phantom-pixels all over the place when characters jump into a high-contrast 'sky' background <K' in particular>...)

 

Anyway, Nebula supports full frame-blend, but only to the exclusion of all other graphics filters. Which kinda takes away the point of 'graphical improvement'.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if El Semi has a problem with people exploiting his plug-in system, but I really doubt it. If anyone knows differently, please feel free to flame me or simply delete this topic.

 

The general gist is this: for the betterment of Nebula, it would be useful for someone who has the time/experience to create plug-in versions of the basic filters with full frame-blend included. This does nothing to alter the basic Nebula code in any way, nor does it add any features or support for any games that El Semi disapproves of. In fact, if done, the plug-ins should be sent straight to El Semi, and if he likes the idea he can put them up on his site and have a nifty new feature for his emu without having to do the hard work.

 

The problem is this: I have no idea how to do this. That's pretty much why I call it a 'challenge'.

 

Why would anyone care enough to do this after just reading me rant about it for a page? I have no idea. The reason I would do it if I could is simple: this would give Nebula all the advantages I perceive all other emulators have over it, basically making it the obvious choice for neo-emulation.

 

Anyway, if this is impossible, then call me an idiot... but I don't think it is impossible. I'm sure if someone took a look in Nebula's plug-in directory, a particularly talented individual could figure out how to make it work.

 

Also note I have no 'bounty' to offer for this. I can't afford to buy and ship baked goods / mooks / cash / whatever. It's just a good idea, IMHO.

[Agozer]

The big question is, odes anyone here know how to code these "plugins" and, does Elsemi feel ok about someone else doing his work?

 

For the latter question, I think he's not ok with it.

 

As for Nebula being the definite Neo-Geo emulator, some people just don't share your enthusiasm, image filter-wise or in some other aspect of emulation.

 

Furthermore, if someone makes these kind of challenges, he should be ready to take part himself, wouldn't you agree?

Edited October 16, 2004 by Agozer

[Dooz]

The big question is, odes anyone here know how to code these "plugins" and, does Elsemi feel ok about someone else doing his work?

 

For the latter question, I think he's not ok with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I say, who cares? The guy didn't make the emulator well enough, now someone is gonna fix it for him.

[Gryph]

Elsemi did a great job with Nebula. I say let's just enjoy it as it is.

[Xeon]

The big question is, odes anyone here know how to code these "plugins" and, does Elsemi feel ok about someone else doing his work?

 

For the latter question, I think he's not ok with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I say, who cares? The guy didn't make the emulator well enough, now someone is gonna fix it for him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not true. ElSemi did NOT made Nebula open-source for a reason. maybe you just dont like Nebula but that doesnt mean its bullpoo.

[darkmage479]

Elsemi did a great job with Nebula. I say let's just enjoy it as it is.

 

perhaps, but there's always room for improvement. the main problem is that nebula is not officially dead yet, the writers are still protective of teh code.

 

i would say take the problem to an undergrounder like razoola and maybe he can get something done on it. hes included transparency files and fixes in his bios releases in the past, so i'm sure he has some knowledge of what to do. (if he's not to busy cracking the Progear XOR's!).

[Agozer]

The big question is, odes anyone here know how to code these "plugins" and, does Elsemi feel ok about someone else doing his work?

 

For the latter question, I think he's not ok with it.

I say, who cares? The guy didn't make the emulator well enough, now someone is gonna fix it for him.

 

not true. ElSemi did NOT made Nebula open-source for a reason. maybe you just dont like Nebula but that doesnt mean its bullpoo.

Exactly my point.

[emsley]

I can code, im working on the task at hand now it should take me about 30 minutes.

[Swithin]

Well, I'm glad people didn't flame me.

 

First off, about the "El Semi cares / El Semi doesn't care" thing:

 

I don't think he'd care too much. This isn't something that changes the scope of Nebula, technically it doesn't change anything in the code, and it doesn't support newer releases in any way. As we all know, flickering shadows is something he feels need to be dealt with in neo-emulation, otherwise he wouldn't include the automatic-transparencies features release-after-release. He even includes artificial-transparency support in the form of blend files. The only thing is that neither work well with flickering shadows. It's not like this is something Nebula doesn't do already: it doesn't even toe the line, it's just a graphical option. He includes tons, many of which he probably doesn't ever personally use. This is just one that hasn't gotten in yet, and someone else doing it just saves him the work.

 

Second, someone wrote a massive cheat file for X-Men: COTA. He liked the effects so much he's hosting it on his site. I know there's a big difference between writing a cheat (for which he has written a program for which he gives open support) and using his proprietary plug-in system... but the behaviour there suggests that he appreciates other people working with Nebula and changing the experience. In fact, that cheat substantially alters the gameplay of COTA, so it's not like he's striving only for "arcade-perfect" emulation. He's being *very* inclusive with what Nebula can do, he simply hasn't gotten around to this.

 

Third, I'm not suggesting a hacked version of Nebula or anything, nor am I suggesting some emu-scene-wide release of this thing. I would suggest, if someone does this, to share it around on a relatively private level, so that we can check it out and enjoy it, but also to send it *immediately* to El Semi. I'm sure he'd appreciate the gesture - and if not, it would end there.

 

I know someone mentioned that if I propose this I should be able to help out, and that I should probably answer that first, but I don't want anyone thinking I don't respect El Semi. For me that comes first, I have a great deal of respect for people who release their hard work for free. That said, I still think this is a good idea, and that it can be done and still be damn respectful (and even helpful) to El Semi.

 

Dooz, El Semi has done an awesome job. I get where you're coming from, but there's a big reason I can't just view Nebula in a moral vacuum here. It's not heart-surgery, or the most important thing in the world, but I'm very grateful to El Semi for doing what he's done. You just can't look at it like that until he stops officially supporting Nebula dude.

 

Xeon, El Semi didn't make Nebula open-source I assume mostly so that it isn't abused by rom-kiddiez wanting to play all the newest games. I don't think he'd be too pissed at someone writing a plug-in, though.

 

Darkmage, you're probably right that Raz could do it, but I really just don't want to bother him. He didn't make the program, I can't ask him to support it. If he were my buddy or something, I *would* drop it in in some conversation, because it's probably not a big deal to him, but out of the blue would probably be rude.

 

Agozer - you're completely right, but I just don't have the technical skills. If someone wanted a story or a doctoral thesis or something edited, I'd jump right in to help. I'm not trying to mooch here, this is just something I can't do on my own. On the other hand, I am trying to get the ball rolling, and if something needs getting done that I can do related to this, I wouldn't turn it down.

 

Emsley, I'm not sure if that means you're working on something else right now or taking a look at this. I'm glad you can code, though. If you are trying it out, let me know if there's anything I can do to help out.

 

Oh, and guys, if I seem too interested in this... well, it is an emulation forum, and at the moment this is basically the one thing left on my emulation wishlist.

Edited October 16, 2004 by Swithin

[Agozer]

Agozer - you're completely right, but I just don't have the technical skills. If someone wanted a story or a doctoral thesis or something edited, I'd jump right in to help. I'm not trying just trying to mooch here, this is just something I can't do on my own. On the other hand, I am trying to get the ball rolling, and if something needs getting done that I can do related to this, I wouldn't turn it down.

I weren't trying to diss you or anything, I just know from past experiences that those who issue these "challenges" ultimately won't get the response the want or people just don't care participating in such a challenge.

 

I tip my hat for you, just because you took initiative... I'd just suggest that you should pitch this idea on other boards as well.

[darkmage479]

woah... you could edit my doctoral thesis? i'll get back to you on that one...

 

in all seriousness, it does sound like something that is impossible. keep asking and someone with the skills will eventually show up..

 

besides, we don't flame anyone here and we're proud to have one of the friendlier videogame forums on the web.

 

P.S. Open question: i once heard the rumor (never verified) that, in secret, ElSemi and Razoola are actually the same person. any truth to that?